This week's episode is so good, people!!
If you've ever considered launching an online program in your business, you need to listen up.
This week, I'm chatting with dietitian Stephanie Clairmont, founder of The Leveraged Practice.
What You'll Learn
- The biggest benefits of adding a virtual program to your business
- Special considerations for running a group program specifically in the health space
- Exactly how to get started so you can avoid many of the most common pitfalls new program creators make
Along the way, Stephanie and I go down a lot of juicy rabbit holes and she shares tons of helpful insights from her own experiences and those of her students. I know you'll really enjoy this episode! you'll really enjoy this episode!
More About Stephanie
Stephanie Clairmont, is a Registered Dietitian, entrepreneur, and mom of three young children. She is the founder and lead facilitator at The Leveraged Practice where she supports other health practitioners in developing an online program for their practice.
With 10 online programs and over 70 launches, Stephanie combines her own unique experience with research and best practices to change the way health education is provided world-wide.
Connect With Stephanie
- Website: theleveragedpractice.com
- Instagram: @theleveragedpractice
- Twitter: @StephClairmont
- Facebook: The Leveraged Practice
- YouTube: Stephanie Clairmont
- LinkedIn: Stephanie Clairmont
Episode Show Notes
[00:01:12] Stephanie: [00:01:12] Welcome to The Unconventional RD Podcast, where we inspire dietitians to think outside of the traditional employment box and create their own unconventional income streams. We'll talk all things online business to help you start, grow and scale your own digital empire.
[00:01:33] Erica: [00:01:33] Hi, Stephanie, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
[00:01:37] You have been on my list of people to interview since I started the podcast, so I'm so glad that we're finally connecting. And I'm sure people listening, a lot of them are familiar with you and your work. So we are here to talk today about group programs, something I know you have a lot of personal experience in, both running group programs yourself and then also teaching others how to do that.
[00:02:02] So can you start by telling us more about your background as a dietitian and how you eventually found yourself teaching other dietitians about group programs?
[00:02:12]Stephanie: [00:02:12] Yeah, I would love to. And thank you for having me. I'm excited. It's definitely been on my list to be here and be able to speak to all of your people.
[00:02:20] So I'm happy to provide whatever information and value to help them as they're thinking about this big thing. So, you know, the funny thing about me, and I don't know if this is similar for you, Erica, or anyone listening is I never thought I was going to be an entrepreneur. Right? I just wanted a good job that I loved.
[00:02:33] And so I graduated from a master's degree that was also an internship from university of Toronto. Couldn't find a job I loved and I ended up moving an hour and a half from where I lived to run a kids program. I loved developing programs from like day one, but they were just in person. And so as I got into my career into the next position, I just, I couldn't find something I really liked.
[00:02:54] So I thought, you know what? I can just start something all by myself. I can do it. I can do it. Silly, crazy, but it was good. And I got out there and I started running a practice. So I started with a one-to-one brick and mortar practice. Why? Because that's all I knew how to do. Like that was literally the only thing that I saw in front of me in 2011. Of like, I want to work for myself.
[00:03:15] I want to do work that I love, I want to create something. It's gotta be a one-to-one. Now, when I started, I was too scared to rent, like Lisa, see my clients. I was going door to door, seeing clients in their own homes. And I realized very quickly that that model was not profitable. I was not going to be able to do it.
[00:03:32] And so then I opened up my own practice with my own office and I was seeing people. It took me a while to niche down. And then I was in digestive health and I found myself every day, seeing my clients, repeating myself over and over and over again. I also personally maxed out at about 12 to 13, 14 clients a week.
[00:03:49] Like that was my maximum of three days a week seeing clients in-person one-to-one. That wasn't what I wanted to do. And so I started looking for other ways to make money, to hit that six figure mark that you think is the thing you've got to do, and that will, that will bring you the money that you need. And so I started an in-person workshop that I took around Canada twice, and it was a professional development full day training to help dietitians, nurses, other health professionals to teach cooking.
[00:04:18] And then from there, quickly realized I couldn't get all over the world or to my friends in the US or to different spots in Canada. And so I brought that program online in 2013, not because I knew how or that I thought it was a good idea. It was literally because I couldn't go to all the cities that people were requesting me to go to teach this workshop.
[00:04:38] And so in 2013, you know, I recorded four videos, put it up on the internet and made like $10,000 on this little, you know, training in 2013. And I was like, whoa, hold on a second. And the first person that signed up I remember was in Nunavut. And that's a really, you can Google it, really north part of Canada, like real cold, like real, real cold icy.
[00:04:58] And I was like, wow, I never, this person never would've been able to do this training. And so from there I developed more in-person and online programs. I shifted it over from, to my practice so that in 2015, the year I had my first baby, I was exclusively online. So I saw no more one-to-one clients and I was not in person anywhere.
[00:05:18] And I moved the online group programming over to my IBS practice, the digestive practice. That was the brick and mortar one-to-one. We had some different programs. So I've played with membership, hybrid models where we put the one-to-one coaching or counseling in with the group program, exclusively group, year long, six weeks, one day, all the models over the last eight years, I've played with all of them in both the professional development and the health space., so seeing those clients in digestive health.
[00:05:47] My program still currently runs. We've put thousands of people into the IBS program and I've put about 500, 600 professionals through my varied online professional programs. That's my estimate. I don't have the exact numbers, but it's been a lot of people in a lot of years.
[00:05:59] So that's, you know, that's the expertise that I have and I guess that's how it started to shift about five years ago into professionals, because I started to coach on, on business because. Professionals were coming to me, dietitians specifically, not knowing how to start a practice or like really how to go online even five years ago, how to do a lead magnet, and email marketing, and you know, like all this stuff that we don't know how to do.
[00:06:20] And then I found in business coaching that I loved program planning, and I loved helping people shift that thing. We were trained to do, that one-to-one, over into grgroup learning. degree is actually in population health. So I always bought in to population health and public health and media and TV and books and all these ways to help people in that style.
[00:06:44] And so it makes sense now that I loved that and got into that. And so really shifted all my business coaching. Now I look at myself as a business strategist to help health professionals, to really leverage their expertise and teach really good online programs that get results for people and, you know, grow their business online.
[00:07:03] So that's how it all mapped out. And I ended up where I am right now.
[00:07:07] Erica: [00:07:07] That's a great story. Yeah. And your brand name, The Leveraged Practice, it's like, it all fits in. And yeah, so many things I relate to in that story… Especially the part where you were like, oh, when I first started out, all I knew was one-on-one. Like, that was so me too.
[00:07:23] And then we're both totally not in that space anymore, but yeah, I love how you just kind of followed the wins and the opportunities and you have built some amazing things over the last, I don't know, decade. Has it been that long? Crazy.
[00:07:39] So I love what you were talking about with all the different models that you've played around with. I want to get into that, but I guess maybe we should take it a step back first. When you talk about group programs for scaling a business, like, what does that really mean? Like what is a group program?
[00:07:54] Stephanie: [00:07:54] Yeah, good question. And so I think this is where again, just like you and I talked about, like, I didn't really learn a lot about that.
[00:08:00] And I did, in my placements, do like a group program and it was usually like a four week in-person with like five people and a workbook, you know? So I didn't learn a lot about group programs in school, or even as a dietitian. So over these eight years, I've been 10 years in practice, but eight years I've been online since 2013, when we're recording this.
[00:08:20] I started to study from other business coaches and strategists and people who were, who were ahead of me in the online space. It's really fun that I got to do this in 2013, but the idea of what an online program is, what I would say, is just simply is a way that you're running a group program or running astep-by-step framework, really.
[00:08:40] You're taking people through a step-by-step plan in a group environment, so not one-to-one, using online technology. That would be the Stephanie Clairmont dictionary version of what I would define an online program is. Really just taking what you do systematically with your clients, no matter what you do, whether you're in law or bookkeeping or health, and putting it online, using technology and teaching one to many, right?
[00:09:08] So it's going to include components like education, which you would do in person, but now we're doing it online. It's going to include education and it may also include support as well. So we have some structures that we teach in our leveraged practice process, but I would say the main components are education, support, and communication. Those are the three key components to an online program. And how you do it, whether you teach live or you do recorded videos, whether you do live Q and A's or laser coaching or pre-submitted questions or email support, like what you actually do within your program is completely up to you and how you want to serve the market, and how your market, how your beautiful clients and patients need you to support them.
[00:09:54] And I've helped over 200 health professionals launch their programs. And what I like to say is they're all beautiful little snowflakes. They're similar, but they're all slightly different depending on what feels good to them and how they want to come out and serve the world with their expertise.
[00:10:09]Erica: [00:10:09] I love that. I totally agree that there's no cookie cutter approach. I think people sometimes yearn for that in the beginning when they're lost, but it really is so true that it's always gonna work out best when you come back to what works best for you and your unique audience.
[00:10:26] So thank you for reaffirming that. Would you say that a group program is different from like an online course? Or what are your thoughts?
[00:10:37]Stephanie: [00:10:37] Yeah, I guess like technically an online program could be anything, a course, a membership, a program, like you could call it anything, but the truth is, a program could be delivered as a memberhips. And I know you've done lots of online programs, so, you know, like, Hey, I could do it DIY, I could add some coaching with Erica, and like, there's a lot of variety.
[00:11:01] So for those of you listening, you know, the truth is, is that the word “program” can mean anything. But the way you deliver it could be in a range, from DIY self study, you put some educational videos up on the internet and people hopefully watch them all the way through, to what we call a hybrid program that would have one-to-one support either one-to-one sessions or however you do one-to-one along with the education online.
[00:11:28] And then in between we have, you know, all different versions of that extreme, from DIY to hybrid with one-to-one customization. Whether you call it a course, like we have some of our clients who will run a course, they call it a course because that's what it feels like to them, but they still do group support like several times a week.
[00:11:45] And they have email support. It's really like the amount that you support. Like I said, education, support, and communication with that level of support. And a membership. It's funny that you bring that up cause I bet you a lot of your people are like, should I do a membership? Or like, I see posts every day in Facebook groups that are like, tell me about memberships.
[00:12:02] And here's the honest truth guys, about a membership, honestly. And I've run a membership. I've run a couple. It's just a different pricing strategy because you can have a year long program that people can renew and it can be a one-year membership, right? Like I joined a gym, I paid for one year. It's a membership, but it's one year.
[00:12:23] So what's the difference between a membership and a program? It's just a pricing structure. So traditionally you would think of membership and someone would pay monthly, but there are those options to pay for a year in full, right? And again, if you built a program, so a lot of our clients they'll call their program a program.
[00:12:38] So our clients will build a, a three month, four months, six months, eight months, nine months, or even 12 month program. And what happens Erica, with the majority of health programs, and this is different for healthcare, it's similar to other businesses, but it's very specific to healthcare. Often when you have clients go through a, let's call it a six month program.
[00:13:00] What happens? Are they better? Are they healed? Are they have they getting the results? Probably they're real close, but now they have to maintain them. And so many of our clients will create a secondary level where after the six month program, maybe that's the membership. So maybe it's a quarterly membership or monthly membership or whatever.
[00:13:18] And it's a second level program, more of like a down sell where that's they get continued access. It's not the program framework, but what's in that area could just be support or it could be ongoing learning or lessons, or that's a whole other, basically a whole other program. But this idea of a membership that I think we kind of freak out a bit like, oh, am I going to make more money with a membership or a program?
[00:13:41] Like, you know, I always say. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's just the way that you price it and the way you let people pay for it. What I would have people reflect on. If they're asking that question, like, should I do it? Is, you know, what do your clients need and how much time do they need to work with you?
[00:13:57] Because if you sell people on a monthly membership, they're only going to think they need to work with you for a month. That's the truth. I've sold monthly memberships and what you want, what I would recommend you do is really think about. How long do people need to work with you to get that result and structure that product for that long.
[00:14:17] Because then you're being honest with the customer, right? You're not saying, listen, join my month-to-month membership, but stay forever. No you're saying, listen, join my six month program. That's how long it takes to get results. And I'll work with you and support you throughout that time. By the end, if you're good to go, I'll wish you well and send you my love.
[00:14:33] And if you need some more support, right here, I have this other awesome offer. So I really recommend to people, if you call it a membership or a program or a course, or whatever, really plan it for the length of time that you think people need to spend with you to get those results. And if you've been in practice and you've been doing this, you have a good sense of what that is.
[00:14:51] Erica: [00:14:51] Yeah. That's great advice. And I'm seeing a lot of the big names in the online space, the last couple of years, kind of implement stuff like that as well.
The Benefits of Running an Online Group Program
[00:15:00] For people who are listening and maybe they're still doing one-on-one work, what would you say the biggest benefits are of transitioning and implementing some sort of group program in their business? Like what benefits will they get compared to just staying with the one-on-one.
[00:15:20] Stephanie: [00:15:20] Yeah. So I think the first thing… so the benefits are going to be a little different based on what your goal is, right? Like, so first I would step back and I would, I would encourage you. I love to do action steps. I do this in all my podcast episodes.
[00:15:32] I'm like, okay, now go and do this homework. So, you know, one thing I'd have you do after this episode is to step back and reflect on your current style of work. What is fulfilling and satisfying for you and what's not? What areas do you love and what areas like bring you down?
[00:15:47] Because health is exhausting. Whether you do eating disorders or digestive health or weight or body image or diabetes, we're like, oh my gosh, it's exhausting. Step back and think about that.
[00:15:59] For some of our clients, the benefits to a group program are they don't do one-to-one anymore. So some of our clients will lean back from one-to-one, run their group program, and hire for all of the one-to-one that comes into their practice.
[00:16:11] Others love one-to-one, but they need to reduce it, right? They can only do 10 clients a week, like me, or maybe they just want five clients a week or at a time in their roster. So it allows them to decrease their one-to-one hours or get rid of one-to-one hours and still make an impact. For me personally, the benefit was I was repeating myself, it was driving me crazy.
[00:16:33] I thought there was a better approach than them coming back every month. And I wanted to have people get guided through a system. So one of the things that I find with practices, you can't make people come back for followups. Even if you charge them for it. Sometimes they don't come back. But when you have a program, you can really build it out so there's more milestones. Touch points. Step-by-step, week by week, you can build an accountability. You can build in and foster community and collaboration and connection.
[00:17:01] And the research shows this as well in e-learning. That helps people complete programs. It helps them show up. It helps them feel progress and helps them complete.
[00:17:11] And so as a health professional, I know, I know that probably a lot of your audience are very heart-centered or passionate about health. There's so much job satisfaction around being able to get people results and moving them through a system. And then also creating this connection and collaboration with other people.
[00:17:28] So I would say just job satisfaction and happiness. In addition to, if the work you're doing right now is exhausting, overwhelming, or not what you want to be doing, you can lean back from that one-to-one overwhelm and keep some, or get rid of all of it and then move to a group model, which may take you three or four or five hours of client time in a week, rather than, you know, 30 hours of client time in a week.
[00:17:53] So those are a couple of the biggest benefits that I see. And another one, which you would probably guess, is literally more money, right? Like you cap out. I mean, I capped out at like 50K, like I couldn't calculate the math to get me above 50, 60K. I know I have, I've had colleagues who can hit like 75, 80, maybe a little more with their one to one.
[00:18:14] You keep raising your ater But if you have a dream to do a six-figure business, a hundred thousand, 150, 200,000, I don't know, maybe your dream is to do more, bring in more money for your family. Then you can't do that all with your own time in health. You have to be bringing in some of that group education component.
[00:18:30] So I don't know. I would say those would be the three biggest things that I've seen. I know you're in this area too, so I wonder what you would say.
[00:18:38] Erica: [00:18:38] I think you've pretty much covered it. I agree. I think the motivator for me was the first thing you said, about enjoying your work. And I just was not enjoying one-on-one work. It wasn't a fit with my personality, so, yeah.
[00:18:51] Stephanie: [00:18:51] And it's so ineffective, like I know with your courses, like you have programs you teach with education, like why would you teach one person about SEO here? And then you go teach another person half an hour. You talk about SEO. Like it makes sense. And I'm at this point in my life, I have three kids.
[00:19:06] Six, three, and one, and I'm obsessed with efficiency. Right? And so before, I just used to work at night weekends, like all the time I work all the time, try and make money, but now I'm obsessed with productivity and efficiency. And it's just a more efficient and enjoyable model. Enjoyable for you and your clients.
[00:19:24] So I'm super annoying that I think almost almost every health clinic hospital, like health practitioners should have some type of online program. Even if it's just the health education component that's repeated, you know, it's really so much more effective.
How to Run an Online Program in the Health Space
[00:19:39]Erica: [00:19:39] So, this is sort of going off on a tangent, but I feel like you have a lot of expertise in this.
[00:19:45] I personally never created a patient centered program. Like mine was all educational stuff. Either nutrition education for lay people or professionals, I had mixed people subscribe to that product I had back in the day, or SEO related online business stuff. But one of the questions that I see come up is that sometimes people are like, oh, but I could never do a group program because my work is so personalized.
[00:20:11] Like, I treat every person individually with labs and I don't know how I would turn that into a group model. Or they're like, unsure if they could even do that, because is that MNT in some sense, that would be crossing legal boundaries? So what are your thoughts in that area?
[00:20:29] Stephanie: [00:20:29] Yeah. Okay. So there's a couple of little, little worms in that can, so let me start with the customization piece because you're right.
[00:20:35] That is such a big question. And almost everybody has it. Whenever I get into a one-to-one conversation with someone like we do calls all the time in our business. Sometimes they're just connect calls. There's no sales pitch. It's just, Hey, let's talk about your business and let's understand that this is a pathway for you.
[00:20:50] But when we have these conversations with people, it. I'll tell you, it always ends up the same where I challenge them back and I go, Hey, is there anything, is there anything in your customized approach that you give to more than one person? The answer is yes, there is. Is there anything that you do in those weekly sessions that you repeat to another client?
[00:21:12] Of course there is. And what we end up finding is instead of 100, like different ways you can go with a client, the truth is, is there's actually only like 15 of them, you know? And it's like a delicious buffet of you have 100 different tips or strategies or moves, but depending on the person you select 10 for them 15 for them, or these 12 for this guy or this 14 for this girl.
[00:21:39] Right? What happens is it's very hard for, for our people, our health professionals, to see that. But think about what I'm saying. You do not have a brand new strategy for every single person. It's a collection of them. And so in that regard, there is a way to bring that back and put that into a health education pathway.
[00:22:04] You know, there's probably some that you would do most often. Rather than others. And there are some that you would leave more towards the halfway point or the end point. And so I take my clients through a process where they start to map out all of these pieces and strategies and put them in some kind of order. You may not be happy with the order because you want everyone to have everything all on day one.
[00:22:26] But you know, you can't do that. You can't do that in private practice either. And so you really have to map them out in that way. And then people will move through that health education system in an order that you feel most confident with. However, You know, you called it online programs at the start, I believe in programs.
[00:22:43] And I call it that instead of courses, even though you could call it a course, because I believe in more support than DIY style. Not that DIY style doesn't have a place or there can't be a class or a course on specific topics with no support, but in the health field, I feel very compelled that people in health will have questions and they will need feedback and they will need some kind of support.
[00:23:07] So I believe in health, unless you're writing a book, which is awesome, it's a great starting place for people, that our programs using the internet should come with some kind of support and feedback. And so that's where, Erica, you can take this framework that you built with your 100 tools or strategies, and you bring people in and you give them an assessment and you help guide them through the system.
[00:23:28] And maybe there's pieces that they skip, or maybe there's pieces that they move through quickly. I ran a health clinic and then a group program. We have put, I just checked in with my team, I believe our numbers are over 4,500 people into that health program with the team I work with now. Before that it had put hundreds of people in.
[00:23:47] And so looking at that data, like you said, not a lot of people do that. There's a lot of coaches that teach you about group programs. They've never run a program in the health field. So that's why I focus on health. I focus on health practitioners because I have that health data. And then all the data I continue to get with my clients is about health practices.
[00:24:04] Now there are some professional development, which is so fun too, but it's mostly that. And so I can tell you from that health data. I have a 12 month IBS program. The first phase is seven weeks. There are people that come in and on the second week they email us and they go ” Oh, I'm symptom free!” And we're like, well, that's amazing, but we still make them go through the next few weeks because we know that some of those things might come up, come up for them like exercise and mindfulness and learning about, you know, their body and other pieces that we still get them to go through.
[00:24:33] But we may say, Hey, we're going to unlock those modules, go through them more quickly, just make sure that you digest them. And then we'll move you into phase two. And phase two is where you do like a FODMAP reintroduction, but that beginning part, that health education part to get people results, you have to structure it and then you can provide some customization in there to play with it, skip it.
[00:24:52]So that's kind of what I would recommend the health field. And I understand what you're saying. Like people get stuck up in their brains and they're like, I don't, I don't understand, you know? I have this conversation every day with people and the truth is, if I say that to you, you would probably be like, oh yeah, Stephanie you're right.
[00:25:06] There definitely is a number of strategies that I pick and choose for people. And so that means there's a way to create that health education component into a program and build either a hybrid program or a program that has customization with group support and emails and those kinds of things. Does that answer your question?
[00:25:24] Erica: [00:25:24] Yes! And I, I just was relating to what you just said about having someone go through and then you're unlocking modules for them. Cause I just went through a year-long group coaching program in the business space that was similar and. Prior to that I think I'd only done self-paced online programs. And it was really effective.
[00:25:44] Like when you have to finish something before you can get access to the next thing, you're like, okay, well I gotta do it. So I love that. This is a totally another rabbit hole, but all those online education strategies and the structure of how to get people to complete the program is so fascinating. I'm sure we could do a whole episode on that, but yeah.
[00:26:01] Stephanie: [00:26:01] Oh my gosh. And you're talking about two things. You're talking about drip and prerequisite. And this is helpful for people in the health space, because if there are things that you need your patients to do before the next, you can lock it. So they have to complete it. That's called a prerequisite. If you want them to wait a week or three days or something like you don't want them to binge, because they will…
[00:26:21] I ran a membership. And the main reason I shut the membership down was because people came in, binged everything, and left. And I was like, well, that's not helpful. Like, it's not about the money. It's more about like how unhelpful that is for your digestive health. And so you can also drip out content, like every seven days, for example, so you can pace the program.
[00:26:38] So that's what you're talking about. And that can be really, really helpful for health. And a lot of our clients do that in the health space.
[00:26:44] Erica: [00:26:44] Yeah. And I love that we're talking about these side angles, because I think people who've never really looked at the backend of the tech. Maybe don't even know that's an option. So thanks for sharing that.
[00:26:55] And then what do you think about people who are worried? Oh, well I'm only licensed. I mean, I know you're in Canada, so it's like slightly different, but who are worried about crossing boundaries with licensure with their group programs or something like that?
[00:27:07] Stephanie: [00:27:07] Yeah. So it's the same here in Canada.
[00:27:09] And we work with dietitians, physiotherapists, naturopathic doctors, nurses. And so it's a little different with each profession, but it's very, very similar, right? In that you are most often licensed in a particular state or province, no matter what country you're in. So I know that this is possible where we both live in the US and in Canada for some of our clients, they will choose to be registered in other states.
[00:27:35] And so it would get very expensive to register in all the states. But as a starting point, if your program includes the types of services that you need to be registered to provide, like I said, some of our clients will register in multiple states or provinces. How do you decide what to register in?
[00:27:55] Launch your program get out there. And when you have clients sign up in other places, that's when you can do a registration. Or some of our clients will register in neighboring states. So if you're in New York, you're registering in New Jersey, for example, right? If you're in Ontario, a lot of people are registered in Ontario, but also Alberta would be sweet cause those are highly populated places. Right? And so you don't have to rush to do that.
[00:28:18] The other thing, Erica, is when I'm talking about the hybrid program, one of our clients Alicia that I just did an episode on our podcast, talked about that she has two versions of her program. And one is her, he called it a hybrid.
[00:28:32] hybrid, a VIP, whatever you want to call it. So that version of her program is the group education along with one-to-one visits with Alicia. Then there's another version of her program that she calls, oh my gosh, I think it's like the standard program or whatever, and it's just the education and the group support.
[00:28:50] And so there is this option to have two styles of your program. They're at different price points. It does give people, now we're getting into business strategy. It gives your clients options to say, oh, I want the $500 program, or I can afford the $1,200 program. It also allows you to not be licensed in every country, state, province, because you can say, I take clients in my hybrid who are here in Connecticut.
[00:29:14] And if you're not, you know, you can enter into this program over here. And they're kind of, we're going to talk about this at the end, but I, I have a podcast as well. If you want to hear like, the story specifically about this example and just kind of like, hear how she's built it. You know, you can go to The Leveraged Practice podcast after you finish this one.
[00:29:30]You're welcome to join and subscribe and find this episode or any episodes that speak to you, but it's nice. Like you're talking about, Erica, to hear other people's stories and be like, well, what did they do? And how did they structure it? And that's why we have so many people on our podcast sharing, because like I said, they're all snowflakes.
[00:29:46] So you need to kind of hear a bunch of them and be like, I love that. Or I would do it differently, or my people need it this way. I love doing that on my podcast. So I feel that was helpful to explain that.
[00:29:55] Erica: [00:29:55] Yeah, that was a super actionable and concrete example of how you could work that work around those issues in your business.
[00:30:03] So thank you. And yes, your podcast is great. Something I admire about your podcast, from like a business perspective, is that I think you did a really good job of sort of fitting it into your business. Like, you're like, I talk about group programs and that's my podcast. Whereas mine's like, oh, I'm just interviewing cool people! Like I totally need to hone my strategy a little bit.
[00:30:24] Stephanie: [00:30:24] Then for us, it's if you're interested in group programming, you're going to get a lot of education and action steps and examples over there. And it's it's been really fun. I started it when I was, was I pregnant or did I have a tiny human at a time?
[00:30:36] Oh, the second baby. He was six months old and I relaunched the whole company in 2019. And I knew I was going to have another one, some crazy person, three kids. It's fun, it's chaos, but I didn't want to do, I wanted the option to not do hair and makeup. You know, I wanted the option to still share my message and connect with people and, and put something, put content out for my business, which you need to do to grow your brand.
[00:30:57]But it was such a great avenue to do it. And I wouldn't say I'm an expert and I don't think you'd say you're an expert either, but we probably know quite a bit about podcasts and it's just been such a pleasure. So I'm like such a huge fan of podcasts as a great means to connect with your audience.
[00:31:11] Erica: [00:31:11] Agreed. They're very fun.
The First Step to Creating a Group Program
[00:31:13] Okay. So if someone wants to create a group program after listening to this, what's the very first thing they should do?
[00:31:20] Stephanie: [00:31:20] Yeah. So for me, Erica, I don't know what you suggest, being in business and actually having lots of different projects and different courses and things that you've done. But for me, it always starts with market research.
[00:31:30]I believe, I don't have an MBA, but I believe traditionally in business, that's where the recommendation is. So I don't recommend you do a giant business plan, but I do recommend that you do a little bit of market research. So if you have an established practice, you're an expert, you've written a book, or you're an expert and you work for someone else.
[00:31:49] That's great. You have a step up, right? So in building a program, it works really well if you already have an audience. You know, you have a small Facebook group. It doesn't have to be big, but you have a thousand followers on Instagram, or you have a little Facebook group, or you have a website, or you're doing one-to-one.
[00:32:03] So you're taking an area that you love and you work in and you have some expertise in, and you're just dialing into your message so that you can create that product, which is a program and the marketing around it. And you have to dial into the marketing, the message around it. Right? So I'm a big fan of doing market research every day in my business.
[00:32:22]But for those of you that maybe aren't doing that quite yet every day, I would take a step back and I would just assess the market. Righ?. So what programs already exist? Let's take the intuitive eating space. I don't know if you have a lot of people who are in intuitive eating. We have a lot of followers, a lot of people are in intuitive eating now.
[00:32:37] So if you take the intuitive eating space, you're passionate about food, freedom, intuitive eating. All the good stuff in that area. I would take a look at what's out there, who are the experts, who are the influencers, what programs are available. And this is where you need to take a deep breath and not get stressed out because some of our clients do market research and then they're like, they're like, AH! Yeah, you know, don't do that.
[00:32:57] Okay. Do not do that. You're gonna put your business hat on, put your business hat on it. Assess what's out there and then identify if there's any gaps, like why are people still struggling with body image? Why are people still struggling with weight? Why people still struggling with whatever they're struggling with and where could you come in and provide a product, a program that would help people in a different way?
[00:33:20] So, one, I think looking at what's out there and identifying what's what's missing is important. The other thing we don't push the like niching on our people. Right? I don't force force the niche, but what's really important is that you're clear on who you want to support, because the way you work with retired women aged 65 to 75,
[00:33:46] body image or intuitive eating, and I'm not an expert in this area, so just follow along with my, with my antidote, is going to be very different from teenagers who are young athletes on the swim team or the rugby team or, or ice skating or whatever it is, right? Your approach, your message, your branding, and your program, your delivery will be different for those different populations.
[00:34:08] And so I do believe that you need to be clear on who you serve, because they're more likely to come and work with you and they're going to get better results in your program if you've built it for the teen athlete or the almost 40 year old mom of three tiny humans under six, right? Like we have different lifestyles, worries, small problems.
[00:34:31] And so what you need to do is go out there and identify that and then understand the big and the small problem. So for example, in my IBS program, it's not just about FODMAPs and probiotics and whatnot, right? We then go in and teach about eating, traveling, holidays, you know, other things that are related to our people that solve the other problems besides, you know, how do I get rid of gas and bloating?
[00:34:56] And so you want to start there. And then I gave you this other exercise that we do with our clients earlier. So if you guys missed it, the next step would be to take all your beautiful ideas in your brain, so all of those 100 strategies that you teach your clients and you hand out, what you do first, second, third.
[00:35:12] And what our little technique is that you can put each one on a sticky note. If you could see me, I would be grabbing sticky notes right now, but each one idea on a sticky note and put them all up on your wall, in your kitchen or your office or your bedroom, not, maybe not your bedroom, you won't be able to sleep, in your basement or wherever it is.
[00:35:30] And look at it all and start to move it around. We call that the sticky note brainstorm so you can map it out. So that would be kind of the steps to do that. Really nail that down and then move into just planning it out on your wall. And the biggest thing, I'm sure you probably agree with this, erica is just doing it, like stop talking about it.
[00:35:48] You know, when people I meet that have wanted to do an online program for like two years and maybe they did like a program. I'm not going to name one, like from a guru that was like DIY and you're just a number and it didn't work for you and you really just need someone to kick you in the pants and actually do it or give you the strategies that apply to the health space.
[00:36:05] And so for a lot of it, it's just like, just start planning it. Yeah. Find the gap in the market. How do you want to serve people? Who do you love working with and start mapping it out on your wall or on a notebook or on a big whiteboard. Then there's a lot of little steps that come after that, but that would be where I would, I would start people.
[00:36:20]When you air this episode, Erica, in August, we are planning for our live events. So we're going to run a free four day training in August. It starts August 23rd, and I'm going to walk people through, the three days is training the fourth day is Q&A, but the first two days are all about your program.
[00:36:36] So really like nailing down your program, the delivery, we even talk about tools and technology on those first couple of days, the delivery aspects. And then we do a little bit into like a three step sales plan. So short, I'm making it real short. This tends to be 20 minutes each day. Wish me luck. I'm going to nail it down in 20 minutes, but if you want to do that, like if you, if you want, you know, like Erica said, if you want to take the first steps, we can guide you a little bit in that and give you some free coaching and strategies.
[00:37:02] If that would be helpful. And you can just go to leverageyourpractice.com and that's our landing page to sign up for the event. It's absolutely free. And that would be a good, a good place as well. And we do run those all the time. So if you ever head to that link, you know, six months after we air this podcast, they'll probably still be an event there that you could join.
[00:37:21] Erica: [00:37:21] Awesome.
[00:37:22] I'd love to hear your thoughts.
[00:37:23] I, I totally agree that taking action is where it's at. That is the key. But I also, in the past, have personally fallen into the trap of sort of mistakenly thinking that the product was like the solution to everything and like, oh I know I barely have any online presence or following or a website, or I have no content, but like the product, I just need to make a course.
[00:37:46] And then everyone will come flocking because they want that thing. Whereas I hadn't maybe put in the work upfront to build any community or connection or anything like that first. So of course, my very first foray into trying to sell something online was a complete flop because who was I speaking to? Like basically no one. So what are your tips in terms of getting those first sales or sort of validating the idea?
How to Get Your First Customers
[00:38:10] Stephanie: [00:38:10] Yeah. Yeah. And I love that story because Erica, I did have a list. I had 5,000 people and when I first launched my first program, it was only $97 and I sold one. So I'd also call that a flop, even though I had the list.
[00:38:23] So I, I love where you're coming from. Erica and I are going to meet in the middle here. Okay. You're right. You can't just like put it out in the world and be like, come on, find my great answer. You know, it doesn't work that way, but you also can't have this. I find in today's world, Erica, that a lot of people have this false perception of an Instagram account.
[00:38:42] So we have, I've worked with Instagram influencers who have had tens of thousands of followers and their launches are still really small because they're inflated numbers on Instagram that love learning, like seeing cute outfits or looking at delicious recipes. And so my list, even though it wasn't in, I was not an Instagram influencer.
[00:39:02] I feel old today, you know about this, but like I built a blog. This is where you come from though. Right? Like I had built a blog with strong SEO and I had a thousand people sign up for my email every month. That was like my big trophy achievement. And I grew my email list to 10,000 people. So similar to an Instagram influencer today, when I ran my programs, I didn't get 10,000 people signed up.
[00:39:26] Why? Because my blog was full of information, full of recipes. So I was attracting a lot of people with my free content that had nothing to do with my program. Right? And so I had a lot of people on my list that were already on the FODMAP diet or they've already healed, or I knew I had a lot of beautiful dietitians on that list.
[00:39:44] Maybe some of you guys listening today. And so really interesting topic to talk about. How you do this thing. So it's obviously a very long answer, but really simply you need a combination of brand building visibility and like, Erica, like you were saying audience growth strategies, right? So that's one part of your marketing is what I call audience growth or visibility or awareness.
[00:40:12] It's that “know” stage of the customer journey. It goes know, people know you, right? Right. They just know your name, Erica Julson, yeah. They found you. Now what? Now they have to like and trust you before they buy. So you need to have a session, a segment, a block of time where you are growing your audience, new people coming in for me being on air.
[00:40:33] Cause podcasts here are a blessing. I love it. I love teaching you guys and maybe some of you are like, wow, I've been looking for you and you come on over and now, you know my name and now if you need help, I'm here, right? Or Erica was on my podcast in one of the really, really early episodes as well. And so this is the kind of stuff that you are able to get in front of people, share your message. And you're always, you're always growing that. And so that's that visibility. That's a longterm game. Can't buy leads or email lists or Instagram followers. It's not going to work. So you're putting energy into visibility and the number one strategy to grow your audience would be getting in front of other people's audiences.
[00:41:11] That's the truth. Erica has been building in her Facebook group for years and it was probably slow in the start. Right? And then like, as people heard about it, it grew and grew and grew and that's, that's how it works. There becomes momentum after time. When people start to hear about you. And I know you were probably, I might've seen you in like symposiums or like other places or speaking on stage those kinds of things to grow your name.
[00:41:33] Right? And so, like, that's what we do. The other part of your marketing is, so I had the list. You didn't have the list. So that was like that part of it. And then, and that's how to do that. But the other part of it is I had the list. I had 5,000 people. It was actually in the connection to those people. So the type of content that you put out.
[00:41:51] So the biggest mistake for health professionals in general, but if we talk about dietitians, your audience, is this recipe thing. We give people delicious recipes. We do cute photos and it's cool, but unless you're selling like a recipe membership or a cookbook. Or cooking classes, like it's not relevant, right?
[00:42:13] It's a little bit relevant, but it's like 1% relevant. So you have to build this content that gets people to just choose if they like you or not. And if they like you, helps them trust you. To be aligned with your offer. So for me, with those 5,000 people, I had grown them with like what to eat at Starbucks if you're on a the low FODMAP diet or like my delicious low-FODMAP chili or whatever. And I had grown this giant list and it was not in potential customers. And so a big list or a big Instagram following, or a big, you know, Facebook group or podcast audience, it doesn't matter if it's not the right people.
[00:42:49] And so you have to create a content plan, I believe in weekly content that brings people in, who are there, right? People who are looking for you. That was long. Did that answer the question?
[00:42:58]Erica: [00:42:58] Yes. I am on that same page. I actually, when I redid a lot of my content in my course this year, this was such a common problem, even in the blogging space of not having alignment with the content you're putting out with what you're trying to do as a monetization strategy, that I built out a whole new section in the beginning of the course.
[00:43:18] Please try to get clarity on what your monetization strategy is, because if you are selling a program, the content you need to create is completely different than if you're going for ad revenue and page views and affiliate link income or something like that. It's just totally different. So now I have pathways to guide people down for that exact reason.
[00:43:38] So, yeah.
[00:43:39] Stephanie: [00:43:39] And that probably saves, I'll tell you that this lesson that Erica has in her program and that we just share with you will save you literally like years. And money! Like a 5,000 person list costs money, friends. Like I paid a lot of money for them, for that list. It's a vanity number. I can tell you how to grow a list to a thousand.
[00:43:55] I know you have an email marketing course, too, right? Like I can tell you how to do that. I can tell you it doesn't matter if it doesn't align with your actual offer. So one of the sticky things here, Erica for me is, you know, what comes first, the chicken or the egg, what comes first? The email list, the blog, the website, or the online program?
[00:44:14] We're talking about online programs today and I, and Erica just shared, she launched an online program and like no one bought it. So if you're, if we're leaving you puzzled let's let's solve that puzzle for you because you can't, like you just said, Erica, you can't like build up a website and a blog and SEO without knowing where you're going or without having a plan that you set. A plan to monetize or having a product.
[00:44:37] And you also can't whip up a course and have people buy it if you have no followers, right? I've seen people do it. They bring up a course. They have no audience. No one buys it. So you have to start with your business, you know, like you were just teaching, plan out where you want to go. What is your three-year plan?
[00:44:53] What is your five-year plan? Where do you want to get to. And I believe start with your audience growth. Start with Instagram, start with your website, start by by building your brand, but you have to sell something. Otherwise it's a volunteer opportunity. So you can either small sell like a small program, or you can sell one to one, or you can sell a one-to-one hybrid with a group program.
[00:45:13]But when it comes to group programs, the work that we do at the leveraged practice works best with people who either have a following, so you have a thousand people on Instagram or whatever, you have a small Facebook group. You've started your brand. You've started blogging. You know, you have started to build your name out there and talk to people.
[00:45:30] And so we have clients who will, you know, do Instagram for a little while and build that following a little bit and then come in and launch their program. And it's gonna be still great success, smaller success, cause you're a younger business rather than someone more established. But you have to start somewhere.
[00:45:45] You have to nail down who you want to work with, but I do think making money is important though. So you may be starting with a little bit of one-to-one or services or a small package or things like that, or putting time in. I wonder if you have a lot of people like this, who do it as a side hustle. So you have another job, but you start to build up your brand, your blog, your website, your Instagram, your YouTube, whatever it is.
[00:46:04] And I'm telling you, it doesn't have to be huge. You don't have to wait until you're at 10,000 people. You can literally launch with 500 people, a thousand people. We had a client launch with a Facebook group of 50 people and still make, you know, seven, $8,000. Cause you don't need a lot of people. You just need to focus.
[00:46:18] And like I said earlier, the biggest strategy to grow your audience. We teach it in leverage practice, is word of mouth referrals. So as you launch, as you grow any collaborations, partnerships, PR, being on podcasts, writing for other blog posts, like any of that kind of work for me, that's what I did. I knocked on doctor's offices, like every day for six months and said, will you refer me your digestive clients?
[00:46:41] And that started to grow me. And then I blogged like you do, like you teach in your program and like built up that, that SEO, right? And, you know, got myself out everywhere and that's how, how we start, but definitely want to be doing that. Also making that money, bringing in some money to fuel it. So it's not just a hobby.
[00:46:58] Erica: [00:46:58] Yes. Yes. I personally did the work other jobs until things took off, which was fine at the time. You know, you gotta do what you gotta do.
[00:47:07] Stephanie: [00:47:07] Yep. I worked part-time for two years while I built my business and then it was big enough to take full time. Yep. Yep.
[00:47:14] Erica: [00:47:14] All right. Well, I know I had a few more questions, but we've been talking for a while and gone down so many amazing side tangents of just everything related to course building.
[00:47:24] I know this is going to be a popular episode. I had been wanting to ask you if you had any recommended tech platforms for people, even though I know it's like the wrong question to ask. It's not really relevant, but it does get asked a lot. So yeah. Maybe, what are your thoughts on the tech side? How does this even work, really? Is it confusing? Is it doable for people?
[00:47:43] Stephanie: [00:47:43] Yes. No, it's a good question. What I'll do is I won't talk very long. I'm a talker. It's a problem. And so we actually are going to create a podcast episode on it too. I don't even have one because it's such a common question. So Erica already knows the answer.
[00:47:55] The truth is, is the tech doesn't matter as much as you think. What you need to do is pick a platform. I recommend you do not build a platform. You don't code it. I don't know what your recommendations are, Erica, but I recommend like don't plug-in it. Like please don't DIY it. I did, it was a waste of time.
[00:48:11] Don't do it. Just choose a platform. These days you can get one for free, like there's a free trial and you can literally launch your course or program for free. Now I love Thinkific. That is my favorite platform. A lot of our clients choose to use Thinki Why do I like it? Because it's not focused on sales or marketing at all.
[00:48:31] So it doesn't like check all the boxes. It's focused on the learner experience. So they have some features for learning that Teachable or Kajabi or Kartra or Podia, like all the other ones don't. So I like them. However, it doesn't really matter.
[00:48:46] But what I would say is,
[00:48:47] Stephanie: [00:48:47] choose Thinkific, Teachable or pick one. They're cheap.
[00:48:51] They have free trials. Get your program out there. You can always move it. I've moved. Erica, I don't know about you because you've been doing this for a while, but I've moved. I was on Simplero. I did Teachable. I was on Thinkific. I left Thinkific. I came back. I have a custom member site for IBS. I did more custom WordPress stuff.
[00:49:06] I used LearnDash plugins. I did everything. And so here's where I landed. I'm on Thinkific. Why? Because it's easy. Costs me like a hundred bucks a month and has all the tech support. And my team knows how to use it. It's very easy. So like you said, you know, whether you use Thinkific or a different platform, you literally just log in and upload some videos to it, they host your videos for you. You create a handout on Canva or something, right?
[00:49:29] Like I'm sure you're a big fan of Canva. You can upload that handout. Make your handout on Word. I don't, it doesn't matter. Like just launch it. Doesn't have to be perfect. Don't waste your time. But just, you know, you have those features. You can build a quiz, a survey, right in there and capture everyone's data.
[00:49:43] So our core technology that we recommended. A simple affordable platform that's free, or the first version that they give it's like 50 bucks. Right? And you can do payment plans with that. So some of our clients will up-level to that. So a simple platform like Teachable or Thinkific, probably some Canva to make a few handouts if you want, but you don't have to make it complicated, and Zoom, which is what we're using right now to record this podcast.
[00:50:06] So you can use it to record your podcast. And go live to teach your classes. You can actually, also some of our clients have used Zoom. I don't love it for this, but you can record classes on zoom. So you could like record a video on zoom, record your class that way. That's not my favorite tool for that, but I like to use some better tools for video recording and making classes.
[00:50:28] I'm a little picky about that, but you literally could just do a platform, zoom, maybe some Canva and like a Facebook group. And that would be like your starting stack from there. Sky's the limit. But look at us, we still use zoom for all of our live classes. We use thinkific. We do have a few other little pieces that we've built in, but that's like your standard starting area and it doesn't have to be complex.
[00:50:54] Erica: [00:50:54] Yeah, I would agree with that. I would say like 90% of people start on a pre-made platform. I actually started on Thinkific as well. But now everything's on my own website, but that is not something… I like it cause I really like the website stuff, but like 9.5 people out of 10 are probably like, that's not the best use of their time.
[00:51:17] I get this question from a website perspective, a lot, like, oh, can I just put all my courses on my same site as my blog and all that? And the answer is, no. Please don't do that. Because it's, it's just really tech heavy and it will slow everything down and hurt your SEO and all that. And just the caching needs and login and it's just a lot and they need to be separate.
[00:51:36] So that's a whole nother rabbit hole that you may or may not want to go down when you could just use a platform like Thinkific and add a link in your menu of your main website and it takes people there and it's good to go. So it depends on your needs. There's plenty of options.
[00:51:50] Stephanie: [00:51:50] And I mean, I would say even if you want to do custom, like you, like you said, you started on Thinkific.
[00:51:54] Like that's my recommendation and my website developer, I've worked with for five years. Start at least with Thinkific or a platform. And then as you learn what components you need in your program, then you know how to build one out. Like our IBS platform was like 20K to build out. Right. I also built my own membership in 2016.
[00:52:13] I built it and coded it myself, but I had run the program online for like a year or two already. I do recommend that you start with a platform, even if you want to go custom, just put a pilot through it or a beta group through it, because then you'll know, oh, this needs to go here. And it's a lot more complex, the learning journey.
[00:52:30] But I agree with you when I had my custom sites, like I was really particular about the colors and like the greyed out boxes and everything. You know what, I don't know if you know that we're on Thinkific partly because it's customizable. So I don't know if you were on it a while ago, but you can access the API.
[00:52:44] Now we're getting techie, but you can access the code. And so when you log into the leveraged practice program, which is on Thinkific, I should show you this one day, but the homepage does not look like a Thinkific core site. It's like a beautiful homepage, like pick up where you left off, contact support, there's different phases, all of our like laser coaching.
[00:53:03] Imagery. Like, it's really a beautiful homebase and it's still Thinkific. Like it's still like all the backend teaching is in the back. And I didn't know that you could do that. And that's why I did custom stuff in the past, but that's a really cool option. I believe Kajabi also allows you to access the API or whatever to fix it all.
[00:53:21] I just, I don't love their educational system. So that's why that is a benefit. That way you log in to that login page, like that experience to me is really important. When your clients log in there. And so that's, that's part of why I, we customized our Thinkific site.
[00:53:37] Erica: [00:53:37] Yeah. It's been a while since I've done a comparison. I did one between, I think, just Teachable and Thinkific.
[00:53:42] And the bottom line was that I agree with you, that Thinkific was more education focused and they had a few extra features in that realm compared to Teachable, but the downside was that their affiliate program was really crappy. I don't know if that's improved recently though.
[00:54:00] Stephanie: [00:54:00] Well, they did move providers and there's a different affiliate provider.
[00:54:04] And I do think they increased their percentage because yeah, it's like, we're an affiliate for Thinkific, right? Why not? Our clients use it. We don't make very much money. It's I call it like beer money, like no money.
[00:54:15] Erica: [00:54:15] Not like an affiliate for them, but if you want to use affiliates. It was very not user-friendly.
[00:54:21] Stephanie: [00:54:21] No, I've never done that because our current funnel is, so we're a high, a high ticket.
[00:54:28] Like we're an investment, we're a 12 month coaching program. And so what we just did, Erica, I was telling you, we use affiliates now for free events, which is so cool. So that's like a different affiliate tool. We use first promoter for that. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but all kinds of tools you can get into, whether it's like in the platform or not.
[00:54:45] The truth is, is you just have to pick one, get started, keep it simple. And all these things that Erica and I know in the technical world can come and I call it like layering on in the future as you continue to grow. Right.
[00:54:59] Erica: [00:54:59] And there's always work arounds, we can like zap things together and you can make it happen.
[00:55:05] All right. Well, this was an amazing conversation. And I know we wanted to point people towards your podcast and some events that you're having recently. And we wove that in a little bit, but do you want to kind of talk about that again for people listening, where should they go to connect with you?
[00:55:22] Stephanie: [00:55:22] Yeah. If you want to learn anything about me or like, I know we shared my story here, anything about like working with our team or learning from our team, because we do a lot for free, the podcast is a great place to start – the leveraged practice podcast. You can hop on over subscribe, hangout, you know, let me know if you like it.
[00:55:37] You can also DM me or, or chat with me on Instagram, just at the leveraged practice, if you have any questions. And then our website is the leveraged practice.com. Very cohesive branding. Everything is the leveraged practice, but our website is the leveraged practice.com. We have our program there. You can learn more about it.
[00:55:52] And as this is airing, we have a free four day training. We do these live trainings every quarter, so we always want to have an event, but they're not always happening. But if you go to leverage your practice.com, you can sign up for our August training, August 23rd to 26th, and we'll, we'll help you learn how to structure and sell a program online in the health space.
[00:56:11] Otherwise, if you listen to this later on, you know, if this is an episode that people come back to, anytime you go to that link, leverage your practice.com should be our next live event, but you can find us anywhere. And we're really easy to talk to. We're not high-pressure sellers. If you just want to know if this is the right time for you to develop a program, or if it would work for your particular niche or area or practice would be happy to chat with you.
[00:56:33] Erica: [00:56:33] Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing all those wonderful resources and I believe in your brand. And I know, I think that the highlight of your brand is your huge, vast experience of running these programs yourself. So your advice is like spot on. And I feel similar with my SEO stuff. I've recently tried to highlight it's not just SEO, it's SEO for dietitians, because it is different. And so I love that you're niched down in that space to help our community. So, yeah.
[00:57:02]Stephanie: [00:57:02] Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. And I appreciate you, you, the listener being here and learning along the way.
[00:57:09] Erica: [00:57:09] Wasn't that such an illuminating conversation.
[00:57:12] I have a feeling a lot of you are taking copious notes on this one. And just a reminder as always, if you want to connect with over 10,000 other food and wellness professionals who are interested in creating unconventional income streams, please join me in my free Facebook group, the unconventional RD community.
[00:57:29] Just search for it on Facebook. Again, that's the unconventional RD community and request to join. I'm in there, Stephanie's in there. And pretty much all the guests that have been on this podcast as well. So get in there and start networking and learning!