TURD004 Copywriting & Marketing Tips for Dietitians with Samantha Scruggs

More About Samantha Scruggs

Samantha Scruggs is a registered dietitian and marketing specialist. She owns a private nutrition practice and has been in business since 2013 and also has a marketing agency for registered dietitians and other health-related practices.

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Episode 004 Show Notes

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Read the transcript:


Welcome to The Unconventional RD podcast, where we inspire dietitians to think outside of the traditional employment box and create their own unconventional income streams. We’ll talk all things online business to help you start, grow and scale your own digital empire.

About this episode

On today’s episode of the podcast, we have dietitian Samantha Scruggs. Samantha is a private practice dietitian who has really become an online marketing expert.

Through her experiences growing her own private practice and using things like Facebook ads to attract clients, she’s really become a master at things like copyrighting and running Facebook ads.

And we have her on the podcast today to talk a little bit about how she got so good at marketing online and to have her share some of her best, juiciest marketing and copyrighting tips for us dietitians.

I love this episode. She breaks it down and gives so many actionable tips. I can’t wait for you guys to listen.

Let’s dive into the interview with Samantha Scruggs.

Erica: Today on the podcast, we have Samantha Scruggs, who is an amazing dietitian. She’s here to talk with us about copyrighting and marketing stuff. So I’m very excited to hear her tips.

Welcome, Samantha.

Samantha: Thank you so much for having me.

Samantha’s Background

Erica: I’m so excited! I guess I’d like to start out by learning a little bit more about you.

I feel like today you’re one of the few marketing specialist dietitians. There’s not that many out there. And I’ve really seeing you be active in this space online and on Facebook, and it’s super intriguing. But I know that’s probably not where you started, so I’d like to kind of back up and get an overview of your story.

Like, how long have you been a dietitian? What did you do in the beginning? And how did it lead you to where you are today?

Samantha: Oh, it’s a very long story, but I’ll try to shorten it up just a little.

So I did become licensed in 2011 and I worked in dialysis for a little while in the hospital. And in 2013 I decided to start a blog, and very similar to your story where you started your recipe blog, um and I kind of started a side hustle.

So my first customer, actually, my husband got for me, because he is very much a salesman and a talker. So he was like, “Hey, my wife is seeing clients. You should go see her.” And it was a total disaster.

But 2013, that’s really when I got my start blogging and in the blogging world. I bought a course called Blog That Converts. It was the first course I ever bought, and that really started my addiction to online courses.

Erica: I’m familiar with that addiction.

Samantha: It’s a very lethal addiction. It will cost you a lot of money.

Erica: Who is that course by?

Samantha: Um, Derek Halpern. And, you know, I don’t even think he… he doesn’t even do that kind of stuff anymore. Like now he started a nutrition product, of all things, like called Truvani with, um, The Food Babe woman, who’s actually from this area, too. But yeah, so that was a great course and I learned quite a lot, but I just like, I had to figure it out.

I was like, I wanted to figure out blogging, I wanted to figure out how to build a website, so I got into WordPress, and I wanted to figure out all this different stuff. And then it got to be so overwhelming though.

And I had children. At that time, I was still having children. So I sort of put it on the back burner for a little while and then came back to it just within the past, like, three or four years.

Getting Started with Private Practice

Erica: Awesome. And then you also have a private practice today?

Samantha: Yeah. Yeah. So I started the private practice in… So what started as a side hustle really became a full-time private practice, I think in 2018. So about a year and 1/2 ago is when, um it was May actually, May of 2018, that I quit my job and I was like, I’m done with this. I can’t. I can’t work a job anymore. There’s a lot of drama behind that. I wasn’t in a very great work environment for me. I was a clinical nutrition manager, which was just, it was not the right role for me.

And then I dove headfirst into private practice. And, um, it’s, it’s been a really fun ride, but very much a roller coaster.

Beginning to Dabble in Marketing

EricaL Oh, yeah. I feel like that encapsulates entrepreneurship altogether. Okay, so would you say that maybe you got into marketing by learning how to market in your private practice?

Samantha: Yeah, I think so. In some ways, that’s when I really got into the very analytical stuff. When I had started my blog, I had done quite a few online programs about, like, how to promote your blog and how to do Facebook ads. Back then, they were completely different than they are now. So I think I started my first Facebook ad in, like, 2015 maybe 2016. But I knew kind of how to do Facebook ads, and I was like, okay, I have this business, so let me put two and two together and run Facebook ads for my business. But I had no clue what I was doing.

Ah, and then I tried hiring agencies and they had no clue what they were doing. And so it just became something I had to figure out. Like it was my mission to figure out how to do Facebook ads in a way that would work for a dietitian practice. You have so many regulations, you have to be HIPAA compliant and then Facebook has their whole set of regulations and rules, because you cannot talk to people about their health conditions, you know?

And so it was like this big puzzle that I just, like, had to figure out. And so I did. I did finally figure it out. And then all of the other dietitians that I knew started asking me for help and then that blew up into a whole nother business.

Erica: Don’t you feel like, I don’t know, in my experience, that’s how the best businesses have been born. When other people are just, like, asking you and you’re like, “Well, okay, I guess I’ll turn this into a business!”

Starting a Marketing Agency

Samantha: Yeah, I was very resistant to it at first. Like, I used to refer people out all the time. Like I would refer them to Stephanie Clairmont, or refer them to Tracy Brown, or some of the other dietitians that do a lot of, like, coaching and marketing, Ashley Koff or Lesli Bitel. And it has got to the point where I was like, man, I feel like I’m getting more inquiries for marketing as compared to, um, you know, we see about 15 to 20 hours of private practice a week.

But like, I’m getting all these leads for marketing and I’m just referring them out? Like I really probably should take this is as a hint that people want my help about something, and I should probably just do it, even though I don’t want to. But then I realized that I really loved it when I was helping other people with their marketing because I saw their business grow and explode. Um, and I really love copywriting and I get to do a lot of that. I get to do a lot of copywriting.

My resistance to it was that I just didn’t want to work exclusively with dietitians, but it’s actually been really great. I have loved it. I just hired a dietitian to come help with the practice so that I can focus more on marketing. So, it’s like the things that you’re resistant to end up being the things that you actually enjoy.

Erica: Yeah, I mean, I can see the passion, I mean, I’m reading it online, but I can like, hear the passion in your post when you talk about it, and it’s very persuasive. Like, I believe that this is a really great method and this is working. And when I’m ready to start implementing that in my business, you’re the one who comes to mind.

So, um, I think the lesson that I pull from that is just like, being authentic online can almost just, like, naturally bring things to you even when you’re not trying. I feel like it’s better than when you’re like, actively trying to chase people down. It’s more like, when you’re just sharing what you know, then it more organically comes to you.

Releasing the “dietitian” identity

Samantha: Yeah, and I just, I would get so excited talking about it. I went to a mastermind in October, and that’s when I had this big identity crisis, which you guys probably saw the result of, where I was like, “But I’m a dietitian! I’m not a marketer. I am a dietitian, this is what I do. I help people eat healthier.” I had my whole identity wrapped up in being a dietitian or being a nutritionist, and having a private practice. And so I had to get over the fact that I wanted to do marketing.

And actually there were a few times, like on planes like, you know, people ask, “What do you do for a living?” And actually I stopped and I was like, You know what? I’m a marketer. That’s what I do. I do. I do online marketing. And it was just like something blossomed in my chest where I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I really am a marketer. This is who I am now.” But it took a while for me to be able to release that my identity wasn’t entirely as a dietician. You know?

Erica: That’s such good insight. I relate with that so hard. I’m kind of currently going through the same transition, in terms of stepping a little bit away from creating nutrition content and leaning more into business content. And it is weird. It’s like you went to school for this whole thing, and I don’t know about you, but I have lots of loans I’m still paying off it, and I’m not using, technically, that degree! Although obviously, the audience and the group of dietitians we’ve cultivated… We wouldn’t have a list if we weren’t dietitians, but it’s just really interesting… our own inner talk.

Samantha: Yeah, it can really… It can really mess with your mindset. And you know, I actually, I’ve been working on my master’s degree kind of on the side, cause I did a bachelor program for my RD in the first place and then they sort of went away from that, or they are going away from that. But, uh, I just finished my master’s degree this semester, and it’s sort of allowed me to say, okay, this is the past me who has a master’s in nutrition and did all this work and is like scientific, you know, and can help coach, motivational interviewing, and all that.

And granted, all that stuff really helps with marketing. I don’t think people realize how connected your marketing language is to what you learn in motivational interviewing. It’s basically the same thing. You’re just trying to convince people to buy a service instead of to change their diet. So there’s a lot of parallels.

But it was a shift. It was. And I even remember the exact date and moment that that shift happened because I was at that mastermind. I even have a recording of the conversation with my coach, where he was like coaching me through the fact that I could be a marketer if I wanted to be. There was no sign that said you have to have a degree in marketing in order to do marketing. It was like, oh, okay, like just giving yourself permission. It’s so simple. But it’s so powerful.

Erica: Exactly.

What, exactly, are masterminds?

Erica: This is totally a side question that I’m throwing out right now, but speaking of masterminds, um, I’ve never been a part of a mastermind. And I’m so curious, like, what happens in a mastermind? And like, how did you find this mastermind that you’re in? And do you recommend it? Or just masterminds in general?

Samantha: Yeah. Masterminding has got to be one of the best things that I’ve ever done for my business and for my own personal growth as well.

I joined a program. This is my online course addiction coming out, okay. So I spent a good chunk of my revenue on online courses. Like a really good chunk, maybe 20 or 30%. But ah, that’s sad to admit, but it’s true. But I joined James Wedmore’s Business By Design. If you’re aware of that program, it’s really great. I highly recommend it and I’m not an affiliate. Yet.

And from there, I joined it through a video guy named Brandon Lucero, who does video marketing. And it was through him that I learned quite a bit about doing the video marketing that I’ve done. And then he offered a free, a free, what do you call it? Retreat? A free retreat? A free workshop? I don’t know. In person in California, actually. And then I flew out there for that. And then he offered a year-long, but he didn’t know what at the time, it was like a beta program, but it turned out to be a yearlong mastermind that he offered at that live event.

And I joined on the spot because I was like, yes, this guy, like he knows what he’s talking about. He is, like, really good friends with James Wedmore. There’s no way I could have paid that amount of money to work with James Wedmore, but I feel like they’re very close as far as their level of expertise, and they’re all they just, they’re really great people, too. They just, they really inspire me quite a lot.

And, um, so when I joined his mastermind, it turned out to be there was another live event. So that’s the event that I went to in October. And I think they have another one coming up in March. And I’m actually up for renewal for the next year. And I’m like, yeah, I just, I just love working with them. But you just have to find a coach or somebody like a mastermind leader who really you resonate with them quite a lot. And, um, Brandon is very much a copywriter at heart too. He is very much a messaging expert. And I am a messaging copywriter type of expert who loves to write. I love copywriting. So I think that’s why he and I, you know, I connect with him on that level and that’s why I joined his mastermind. And he’s been excellent coach.

Erica: Cool. So like, do you meet monthly? Or is it just the live events?

Samantha: So he helped me with all the scripts that I wrote for all the video marketing that went out about the anti-anxiety lifestyle program and helped me kind of launch that program, get the first members into it. I’m gonna be re-launching it in the new year a couple of times, um, and just getting that marketing process dialed in for how to market.

Because back in 2000, you could just, like, launch a webinar and then make an offer at the end of the webinar and you could just get customers. And it’s just, that’s not working anymore. People are sick of webinars. They will only really go to a webinar for somebody they really know. Like you, you know? Like people know Erica, so they’ll join her. You know, for your webinar that you have on online marketing. But if you just throw a webinar up about any old topic, you’re gonna pay a lot of money for those people if it’s cold. Even if it’s warm, a lot of people just don’t show up. They have it on their calendar, but they just don’t show up.

So these days, video marketing is really becoming very key to marketing towards the clients that you want, because people watch videos on their phone all day long. so they’ll watch your videos, even if they won’t watch a webinar. There’s just a lot more friction involved when you have to sign into a webinar software. So anyway, I’m kind of on a tangent there, but ah, but he’s helped me get that piece of marketing in place for that.

Outsourcing and hiring an associate dietitian

Erica: Cool. Well, okay, so I have sort of a few questions just about, I think this is relevant to other dietitians who maybe want to dabble in other areas, but they feel like all of their time is tied up with seeing clients. I like that you are outsourcing some of that, you know? You’re hiring another dietitian so it’s not all on you.

Because I think it’s totally correct that, like, you can’t do it all. Like at some point when you’re growing, you have to bring on team members. I feel like I’m sort of at that point. I don’t have any team members yet, but I can see the writing on the wall. So how did you go about finding someone to hire and like, having the trust to find someone to bring on to represent your business?

Samantha: Yeah, it’s very hard to let go of control, you know, because your business has been your baby, essentially, since 2013 when I started my side hustle. But really, over the past year and 1/2 with it being my full-time venture. It just becomes like this thing that you created, and it’s like handing your baby over to a baby sitter to be like Here you go. Have fun. But it started small. I started with just hiring a virtual assistant to help with some tasks and hiring somebody to help with some of the sales.

Because, you know, once you generate leads online, then you have to have sales processes for them to turn into clients. Then I had some help with sales and, um, started just hiring people for a little, like maybe some Upwork or some Fiverr. But when I realized that I needed to focus a lot on the marketing in order to grow, that, you know, my essentially 3/4 full-time job is sitting here in my office, which is where I am right now, your podcast people can’t see that, but that’s where I am, is counseling people in my office most days, I just had to put some boundaries in place.

And so then when I cut back my hours, the demand is higher than the hours that you have available. And so then the next obvious step is that you have to hire somebody to fill that in. And so I started researching, you know, how I would make that happen. I have to get them credentialed through the insurance companies since my practice is under a group NPI – national provider identification.

Ah, for those who don’t know, if you bill insurance, you have to have one of those. And I think every dietitian should probably have them. Even if they’re not billing insurance. So go get your NPI, everybody.

Erica: They’re free and like, take 60 seconds to get.

Samantha: Yes, free and it does not take hardly any time. Actually, the person I hired got hers within like a week. It was really simple.

So, um and then getting her credentialed. And, um, you know, I always saw this is a business that would grow even when I wasn’t focused on marketing. I saw it as not just being me all the time anyway, so I knew it was gonna be part of my vision. It’s just a matter of when. Like, you know that you’re going to need to hire somebody eventually. And the question really is “When is the right time?” And for me, it’s just a matter of there’s only so many hours in the day and I also have children and a husband that miss me, because I’m often working. And so I just had to say it. The time is now. That I have to do it now.

I put a posting on Indeed and I got I think I got four applications because I put it in as entry level.

A good friend of mine, Meg, was also hiring, and she got, like, 40, but she put hers in as a contract position for $50 an hour, so she got quite a few more.

So I put mine for $22 to $25 an hour. I just wanted to hire somebody entry-level and I found the first perfect person, I know.

Can I say anything about her?

Erica: Of course!

Samantha: Her name is Laura. She starts January and I’m really excited to have her. I think she’s gonna be an amazing addition to the team.

I did hire based on personality type. I wanted somebody who was not just like me, but complimented me.

Hiring based on personality and skill set

Erica: Did you have them take a test?

Samantha: I did. I had all my applicants take a personality test. I had them take the DISC and the Myers-Briggs. And I am a high D on the DISC and I think I’m a little I, and then I’m an ENFP.

I hired somebody who would be the opposite of me so that she would compliment me. So she’s not a high D. And that’s what I really need for the business. That’s what I was looking for. So that’s why I had people take a personality test to make sure that it would be somebody who had strengths in the areas that I am lacking.

Erica: That’s so funny. I had one gig where I did something like that. But it was not…. I wasn’t joining someone’s team. I was just doing a freelance project. And she told me that I was the most similar to her as the business owner. And for something which was just outsourcing, that’s what she was looking for because she wanted to know that it was going to get done well. Like to her standards.

Samantha: That’s so funny. I mean, it’s such a great idea because you can learn so much about somebody from their personality type and whether or not you’re looking for somebody who’s similar to you, like your freelancer job, or whether you’re looking for somebody to compliment you.

I read the book John Maxwell’ s 21 Laws of Irrefutable Leadership. I didn’t say that right. 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership (affiliate link). That’s it. And that’s what it said in the book. That if you have certain weaknesses, you have to make sure that your team makes up for those weaknesses.

And one of my weaknesses, as a high D, is that I tend to be like a bull in a china shop, a little bit. Like I just make decisions and I just go and I don’t think about the consequences.

I’m very risk… um, I’m not risk averse. What’s the opposite of risk averse? Like, risk tolerant? I’m very risk tolerant. Like I’ll just take risks. And I’m just like, let’s just do it. Whatever it takes, we’ll get it done. And that can be a negative in some situations where you need somebody to really think out a plan and have all the ducks in a row.

So that’s what I was looking for. Somebody who has all their ducks in a row.

Erica: I think that’s gonna have a lot of pearls of wisdom for people who are thinking about hiring.

Samantha: Exactly.

Erica: Are those quizzes…. Can people just find those for free on the internet? Or do you pay for people to use them?

Samantha: I think I used a free site called CrystalKnows.com.

Then you could just have them sign up for a free account. I think there’s a paid version, too, but the free account will tell you their DISC and their Myers-Briggs.

Erica: Cool. Thank you for that.  Well, I’m wishing you all the best with your new hire. I guess by the time this airs, maybe you’ll already be up and running. That’s really helpful to give us the background on how you went through that process.

I guess we can shift now, maybe to a little more marketing talk, in terms of attracting people to your business.

B2B vs B2C Marketing Tactics

Erica: I know we touched a little bit on how you’ve attracted people to your marketing stuff, but how do you… Are there different strategies for attracting people to your private practice versus, you know, marketing stuff?

Samantha: Yes, absolutely. Like it’s a totally different market.

And I think that early on in my business days, I before I was doing it full time, when it was just a side hustle, I had a little more money to test cause I was still working full time. So I tried so many different things that did not work.

And I think that that’s where I learned the most about what does work… by trying all the things that don’t work, first. At least that’s what I like to tell myself.

But I think with business marketing or B2B type businesses, the strategy is totally different than a B2C business, which is business to consumer.

So those who don’t know those common abbreviations – B2B is business to business and B2C is business to consumer.

So my marketing business is a B2B business and my dietitian private practice is a B2C business.

Uh, and the thing about B2B businesses is that it’s organic type marketing strategies and like LinkedIn, for example, that tend to work quite well. Whereas if you cold message people for B2C businesses, that doesn’t quite work very well.

So they’re totally different businesses. They need different strategies.

So for B2C business, building a relationship with the customer always works, no matter what kind of business you have. Like building relationships is the foundation of being human, let alone having a business. But it just depends on whether or not you are using advertisements, whether or not you’re warming people up more.

I find that when people are considering their health, they do need to have a trust factor with the dietitian that they’re going to see, and so I definitely have always had to get people either on the phone in order to sell them on my services, that works quite well, and I’ve done that both organically and with paid ads, but just trying to sell services directly in an advertisement or trying to sell it directly on a webinar has never seemed to work very well for me, unless it was a very low-cost service.

So if it’s like a membership, selling on the webinars, especially if you give them like a free trial, but then they’re coming in and then they’re being warmed up because they’re being part of your membership.

So I just feel like people are a little bit more willing to take a risk because they’re entrepreneurs. They’re like, yes, I’ll pay this marketing company to help me get leads, versus somebody with their health, they’re just a little bit more risk-averse.

Which, I think we entrepreneurs are a little bit bizarre in that we’re a little bit more willing to take risks than the general public.

Erica: Totally. And I feel like there’s an aspect of, you know, you’re investing, but since you are running a business, you feel like maybe that investment will come back to you with your enhanced skills. You know, get more clients and/or sales. Whereas maybe it’s not that same promise when investing in something for your health or any other B2C offer, I guess.

Samantha: Yeah, I think you have to really spend more time to show the value of a B2C offer because with a B2B offer, like, business owners know the value of their customers, for the most part. Like, I know that if I bring a customer into my private practice and they come to see me six times, I know the exact amount. Like I can put a dollar figure on that quite easily with a little bit of simple math.

But what is the value of your health? It’s definitely more valuable than business stuff, right? It’s just a little bit more challenging to put a dollar number on it.

You have to think a little bit harder. You have to think about like, okay, well, how many years of my life is health worth? And how how many doctors visits? And like, how much does that cost and how much do the pharmaceuticals cost? And it’s it takes a little bit more, more of a thought challenge.

And so it’s our job, as the dietitians, to show people what that value is. You can’t expect people to do that in their heads. They’re not going to.

If you confuse people, like Donald Miller says a lot (I love him too, by the way), he says, “If you confuse, you lose.”

And so if you confuse your clients on what your services are worth, they’re just not gonna sign up. So you have to be very clear on what you’re providing and what that’s worth to the client. And it’s a little harder to do in health compared to business.

How to demonstrate value to your potential customers

Erica: So many good insights. Would that be something that you would put on your sales page? Or would you weave it into your copy? Or?

Samantha: Yeah, I mean, if you wait until your sales page to close your client on the sale, then you just you won’t ever close them on the sale because it’s too late at that point. The sales page should be like they’re 80% of the way sold, and they just need a little, like, push over the edge.

Really, all your content should constantly be selling. Constantly. Um, and I know that’s the opposite of what a lot of people in the dietitian world say, right? They say, like, Oh, you’re content should be educating, but I don’t think that’s true.

I think if you rely on your content to educate people that they’ll see you as just another textbook or resource or something that they could look up quite easily on Google, right? Like information is free and easy these days, and people just don’t pay for information anymore.

They pay for coaching. They pay for transformation. They pay for somebody to walk along a journey with them. They pay for support. They don’t pay for information. Information they can find anywhere for free.

So if your content is providing information, then I have to say that it’s probably not gonna work. What our content has to do is it has to take people on a journey, where the next logical step is working with you in order to solve the problem that they have, right?

Creating cohesion between your content and your offers

Erica: I feel like sometimes we get so caught up in just like, pushing stuff out. And then there’s no bigger strategy. Like, where is this leading people? Like, down the customer journey, or whatever, from just learning about you to wanting to work with you.

And you’re right, if you’re just putting out content, that’s not gonna lead, necessarily, someone to work with you.

I also think it depends, cause I don’t work with people one on one at all. So you CAN have a business that doesn’t involve services that still is monetized through content, but it’s an entirely different strategy.

Just being aware of where you’re trying to go and not getting too confused and taking something from this person and something from this person, and then you’re not building a strategic funnel or business that’s actually leading to sales, if that makes sense.

Samantha: Yeah, I do think content can be valuable and I’ve had a few conversations with Ana Reisdorf about this because she doesn’t really do copywriting type of content, she does, um, educational informational content. And I do think that that that can help to build a brand.

But if you do nothing but that, then you’re missing out on the opportunity to sell to people. And a lot of times content has sales woven throughout it. So it’s like partially informational and partially sales content, and I think it can be it could be a balance.

I think people like content. They like to watch content. They like to read content. And people especially like content that’s going to save them time and money, right?

So if you put together a recipe blog and you put together a recipe collection that helps people save 30 minutes on their dinner time prep, people are definitely gonna check it out.

But if you just put the content out and you never capitalize on the fact that there is an ideal audience right there that’s willing and able to purchase something from you, then you’re just missing out on the opportunity to monetize that and to continue to do more of that.

And then the more that we do this as dietitians, the more we get to help people eat healthier, and the more we get to help people not have to be in the hospital, and so, just like the bigger picture is, is so amazingly important.

I feel like sometimes we hold back and we forget what we’re actually doing as dietitians in helping people.

Samantha’s recommendations for people who are new to marketing

Erica: Do you feel like you just sort of gleaned this knowledge over years of trial and error? Or is there anything that you would recommend to a brand new newbie? In terms of getting your bearings on starting an online business or attracting people to their in-person business, even, via the internet?

Samantha: Yeah. I mean, I definitely wrote a lot of blog posts to crickets, and I definitely put a lot of videos out there that got, like, two view. Like my mom and like maybe my dad.

Um, but I think it’s a combination of practicing and learning.

So you practice and then maybe you take an online course.

I do. I mean, Business by Design was amazing. I think I’m gonna try to be an affiliate for them next year, because I thought it was a really great program. I’ve taken quite a few.

I have taken one of Stephanie Clairmont’s programs on creating an online course. I’ve taken so many online courses. I took a Facebook advertising course specifically for agency owners when I decided I wanted to be an agency owner. I was like, okay, well, I need to learn how to do this. So I took a course on that.

Um, I’m really excited to at some point, take your SEO course. I have to put that on my list of, like, things that I need to get to. Ah, but yeah, I’ve taken a lot of online courses, so I think it’s a combination.

If you just take courses and you don’t ever take action, then you just have a whole bunch of knowledge that you’ve never used.

Ah, and one of the things my mentors like to say is it’s like riding a bicycle. Like, you could read 100 books on how to ride a bicycle, but until you actually get on the bicycle and try and fall over a few dozen times, you know, you just you’re not gonna learn how to do it.

You have to, there’s a feel to it. There’s a muscle memory to it. And so creating content is the same way.

And I have to say, the first content that you create is not gonna be very good. I mean, it just isn’t. Like, it’s gonna suck. Even with a college degree, even as a dietitian. But as you continue to create content, you just get better at it and you get more natural.

I sound natural on camera now because I’ve done it 1000 times, you know? And I probably deleted half of them because they were so bad. So you just have to practice. There’s no other way around it.

Studying copywriting and marketing

Erica: I, with my writing, at least in terms of blogging and even writing emails, sometimes will actually like study what other people are doing.

When something really connects with me. I’m like, Why is this connecting with me? Like, what are they doing? And how can I maybe take that into my business? You know, for whatever I’m working on. So that’s been really helpful too.

Samantha: Yeah, I do that all the time. I do that now with ads on TV or billboards.

My husband, he just rolls his eyes at me now. It’s like you’re so crazy. But I’ll point out a billboard or something, like that is great copy right there. Or I’ll remember an advertisement like Geico or something like that. And I’ll remember like, like the camel or whatever, and I’m like Hump Day! And then I’m like, yeah, that’s a good ad because you remember it even after you’re not watching it anymore.

You recognize the brand, and then people actually take that into their life as like an inside joke. It’s a cultural thing.

So if you’re advertising, you can create a brand. You can create a cultural identity. You can create an emotional response.

Whether it’s laughter, laughter is a really great thing to use, but even if it’s, um, even if it’s a painful emotion, a lot of my copy on my facebook ads is the emotions of what it’s like to struggle with food, because I’ve been there before, and that is very powerful to people because they relate to it.

So once you start creating good content and good copy, you recognize when other people are creating it. And likewise, you recognize when other people’s content is really bad, too. And you’re like, Oh, that’s not gonna convert. Sorry.

Erica: It’s funny, because when I look back on my own stuff, I’m like, ooo what was I thinking?? No wonder I sold one.

What makes good copy?

Erica: So if you maybe had to sum it up, what do you think makes good copy in your eyes?

Samantha: I think stories and emotions make the best copy.

I do have some people going through my program right now. I started a program called Interactive Marketing Methods. I think interactive is a big thing for 2020. People don’t want to just be lectured to anymore. They want to interact. And so that’s why things like quizzes and things like chatbots are working really well, because it’s very interactive.

But I think also you have to weave in some emotions into that because people make decisions that are emotional, and then they go back and justify it later with their brain on. That happens with both food and buying decisions.

So when you talk about motivational interviewing… People are like, oh, I just decided to go out to eat because it was easy, and because, you know, when you think about it, it’s $3 or $4 versus like I’d have to go to the grocery store and buy like, $20 dollars worth of food and then prepare that, and then I’d waste half of it all.

That reasoning didn’t happen in the moment that they made the decision. It happened afterward, and we recognize that when we’re counseling people on a one on one basis.

We’re like, okay, we have to get this person to sort of come out of that justification mode and sort of realize that they’re just justifying their decision after they made it.

And it’s not easy to do in dietetics, but it’s also not easy to do with buying decisions, because you have to get to that emotional part of people in order to get them to change.

That’s why I say it’s very similar to motivational interviewing. You have to get that emotional part of them out in order for them to say, oh, there’s something I got to do about this, and come to buy this product or buy the service.

Then stories, I think, are very powerful, not only because they are usually emotional, but also because they allow you to have proof that something that you’ve done is working, and it’s worked for other people.

But also because people love stories. Like just look at Hollywood. Like our whole society is built around going to the movies and watching stories of heroes and heroines and all the fun things that we watch on the movie screen.

And so people just don’t, they don’t want to be lectured to. They want a fun story about a client that has overcome a problem. Or if you don’t even have that yet and you’re just starting out, what about what you’ve overcome in your own life?

People love that kind of stuff. They love the rags to riches story, and they love hearing other people who have overcome something hard in their lives.

Erica: I haven’t read the story brand book, but is that something that they talk about in that? Building a story brand(affiliate link)

Samantha’s favorite marketing books

Samantha: Yeah, that is a great book. I’m an avid reader, and so I read, probably read a book, a day. I’m just, I’m a little bit psychotic about it. Um, I read quite a few books. I’ve read story brand and that is one of my favorite books I’ve read.

You know,  Donald Miller (Don Miller) and Dave Ramsey are very closely connected, so I’ve read a lot of the Dave Ramsey books like EntreLeadership (affiliate link) and all that kind of stuff. Those are all really good books too.

Um, Christy Wright has a book called Business Boutique (affiliate link), which, I’ve read that one. That one’s really good, too.

So I just think the more you read, the more that not only you help grow yourself, but the more you give yourself ideas for content too.

Is using emotion in marketing sleezy or manipulative?

Erica: So, I don’t know if you’ve run up against this objection, but I have seen people bring it up to me and, like, just online in general…. But I think there’s like, a bit of a block in some people, where they feel like if they’re playing on people’s emotions, they’re being spammy or manipulative in their marketing.

Where do you think that comes from? And do you have any sort of counter-argument to that belief?

Samantha: Yeah, yeah, I’ve heard that before. And I mean, I think it’s common for us to to feel like we’re are manipulating people by playing on their emotions.

But I think that everything in our lives is emotional, and maybe that comes from the side of me that’s an ENFP… I’m a feeling-perceiving type of person. I am just a very emotional person, highly sensitive person. Um, so that’s a big part of me.

But I think even when you’re talking to a friend and you’re telling them about a store that she went to that you really loved. You’re not like, Oh, they’re shirts, they’re great… You talk about it like, That store is amazing! You walk into it and you just feel so well cared for, and everybody really, really wants to help you.

And so if you think about any sort of selling situation, we’re selling all the time, even if it’s not something that we’re gonna benefit from financially. Like maybe you’re selling going to Longhorn Steakhouse for dinner tonight to your husband because you don’t want to cook.

So you’re saying, Oh wouldn’t it be nice honey, if we just like, if we didn’t have to do the dishes tonight and we could just sit at the table and, like, relax and watch the kids color? Like that would, just would be so nice.

So you’re playing on his emotions. Are you manipulating your husband? Like, no. I don’t know. I don’t think so. Maybe I am. I don’t know.

Um, so I think that everything that we do in our lives is very much emotional.

And if you look at the data and the research, that shows this to be true, and that’s why motivational interviewing works. Because you make people talk about the emotional side of their change. Change talk is what you call it, if you guys have studied MI, you make them start doing change talk because they’re telling you about the reason why they want to change, and their family, and you get like that inner motivation out of them, and that’s what gets them to change.

So you have to do the same thing in sales. If you don’t do that, you won’t make the sale. You have to do it.

Erica: That makes a lot of sense. I see the overlap and the connection there, which, it’s interesting, like, that means all the work that we’ve done as dietitians, we can really draw on that. Another application that we might not think of.

And I think you’re right, like, just from my own perspective, even if I am writing something that’s emotional or like getting someone to envision the change, or whatever, I feel like if you really believe in what you have to offer people and you know that you’re helping people, then it’s not coming from a spammy or slimy place.

I think maybe some people have, I mean we probably all have had, spammy sales experiences where we bought something and it didn’t pan out to be what we wanted it to be. But I think as long as you know that what you’re offering is legit, then the energy around that is not gonna be spammy.

Samantha: Yeah, and it’s your energy. That’s what’s attracting people.

So I’ve always told people in my sales conversations that I’m never pushy and there’s never a lot of pressure.

They just see the vision that I see and that’s what makes them buy. So they’re like, I just saw myself as this person who could be healthy, when I was doing nutrition sales. This person who could be healthy and could have a meal plan and have it under control and could eat a good diet and could take control of her health. And that’s why I bought you know, your services there. That’s why I showed up for my appointment.

Um, and that’s the biggest challenge we have as private practice dietitians – getting people to show up. And that’s the sales. You have to sell to get people to show up for an appointment they don’t pay for. Their insurance company is paying, you know?

So, yeah, we can do cancellation fees and all that, but you have to just get people to believe in the bigger purpose behind it. And then you don’t need any of that other stuff because they’re bought in.

And so I think that that’s what excites me. So much about sales and marketing is getting people to buy into something that’s actually good for them instead of just like the next iPhone or whatever.

I mean, granted iPhones, they’re pretty cool, like nothing against Apple but, like you’re getting people to buy into something that’s gonna change their whole lives, like their health of them, not only themselves, to think about their kids. You know that if they start eating differently, their kids, they’re gonna eat differently. Our whole society is going to eat differently. We’re gonna have a better environment because people are going to choose more plant-based foods, whether or not you’re vegetarian. You know, if people choose more vegetables, it’s better for everyone. There’s gonna be less drugs that people have to take, like just the whole…

You have to believe in that vision yourself first. Why you’re doing it. Why you think it’s important. Because if you don’t believe in it wholeheartedly, then you’re not gonna be able to get somebody else to.

And once you believe in it, you just have to transfer that energy to that person and then they believe in it. And then they purchase.

And if they didn’t spend the money on you, what would they spend it on? A flat screen TV? You know?

Erica: Right? And I think we are so highly qualified and educated as dietitians and then we’re sort of thrown out into the world, and we don’t have any training on marketing or how to connect with people or how to spread our message in person or online. Or at least I didn’t in my schooling.

So that’s part of what I’m trying to help people with with this podcast. Like, getting insights into other people who have done it and their best advice and feedback and suggestions for those people moving forward. So it’s not such a big mystery, and we can become more visible and, you know, sort of elevate dietitians.

Samantha: Yeah, I love that. And see, that’s a great mission. And I think that it’s just another skill. It’s just another skill that we can learn. And if we, if we stop being so overwhelmed and intimidated by it…

You know, I was too. At first, I was very overwhelmed and intimidated. Like I said, my husband had to get my first client for me.

But now that I’ve learned it, now that’s what I’m excited about. So I’m like, I can do this, you know? And anybody could do it. You just have to learn.

The most common copywriting mistakes dietitians make

Erica: If you had to pick out, maybe like the most common copywriting mistakes that you see dietitians making most often, what do you think those would be?

#1: Not being descriptive enough

Samantha: Okay, well, I guess my 1st one would be not being descriptive enough.

I think you know, we want to write more scientifically. We want to say, like, come to my webinar to learn how to control diabetes. Right? Like that could be an example. It’s like one I worked on earlier today.

Instead, you need to be more descriptive and say, “This webinar is about how our clients reduced their A1c by up to three points by changing these things in their diet.” Right?

So you just have to be a little more descriptive than you’re comfortable with and very results-focused. So, um, “Our clients reduce their fasting blood sugar by 20 points, or up to 20 points, if you don’t want to make, like, a promise that you don’t think that you can realistically make, by using these three simple strategies, which I’m going to share with you on this webinar.”

So instead of like, this is a webinar… Like for my anxiety program, this is a webinar about anxiety. Like, No, this is a webinar about the three simple things that you can do tomorrow to control your anxiety levels. Or the three simple things that our clients have done, which a lot of times you have to say that to get around Facebook’s little algorithm.

Um, it’s not getting around it. It’s just being honest. Like you can’t promise something to somebody that you don’t know that they can achieve, so instead, you can just tell them what your clients have done. So, our clients have used these strategies in order to control their anxiety through diet, whatever.

So to be more descriptive.

#2 Not being specific enough

Samantha: I think another thing is being very specific. I think that’s kind of the same thing.

But using actual numbers and data. The public loves this. Even if you pull it out of a study. You don’t have to pull it out, like it doesn’t have to be your client’s results. You can do a webinar or a talk on Facebook, since webinars are not really converting well, I know said that earlier, um, you could do a talk on Facebook or send an email out about a new study that came out that reduced peoples cholesterol by 23 points by doing these changes.

But just don’t give away what you’re gonna talk about.

#3 Giving away too much

Samantha: You know, I think that’s another mistake. People give away too much.

Like I’m gonna talk about fiber and exercise and, um, and eating fruits and vegetables. People gonna be like, okay, like, I know I should eat more fiber, fruits, and vegetables, and get more exercise. And then they just dismiss it.

So instead, there has to be a little bit of a mystery behind what you’re going to talk about.

And you do have to build it up a little bit in people’s minds, you know, and make it sound like something different than the same old stuff they’ve heard a 1,000,000 times before.

That’s what gets people excited about things like fiber. If you say something like, Okay, so we learned this new thing about fiber and that there’s this type of fiber you can get that actually will make your gut feel cleaned out. It will give you better bowel movements. It absorbs water into your gut.

Like, you know I’m talking about soluble fiber, right? But, you know, you don’t say that. You just say, you make it like, really exciting for the person, and they don’t know what soluble fiber is. Like, 90% of people have no clue what soluble fiber is.

But if you make it this exciting new thing, even though we know it’s not new, and you build it up a little bit like, yes, this is really exciting. I found out about this new type of fiber, and it, like, helps my gut, and it builds all these good bacteria, and then they get excited about it. And that helps kind of people have the same excitement that you had about fiber when you were going to school.

The power of anticipation

Erica: You know, that’s so true with the leaving people hanging. A little bit of excitement or unknown. Like those are also the type of email subject lines that I always open. Or if they’re trying to get you to read their blog post and you say, like, the three things I shouldn’t be doing, I have to click it. You know?

Samantha: Yes, exactly. It’s a very old technique. Direct response copywriting has been around for ages. It’s just now we have the Internet. People used to do this on radio all the time. “So we’re gonna talk about it when we come back from break, about the three things that you should be checking on your car so that you don’t get in a car accident.”

You know? Like you’ve heard that kind of stuff your whole life. So it’s just taking that and saying like, okay, they’re doing this for a reason. They want you to keep your radio on so you listen to the commercial so that they make money.

So how can we translate that into how we sell? For services, you just have to have a little bit of a mystery. A little bit of an it factor, right? A little bit of mystery behind it.

How to get started with copywriting

Erica: So if somebody was listening to this interview and they’re convinced they’re like, OK, I get it, I need to focus on copywriting. Do you have any suggestions on how to take action on it?

Like, do you have a system? Do you write your copy one day a week? Once a month?

Do you hire it out? Or, you probably don’t, but, you know, could somebody hire it out? What’s your advice there?

Samantha: Yeah, you could hire out. And I tried that at first. But nobody knows your audience like you do, you know?

Even when I’m copywriting for a client, I have to really get to know their audience first and I talk to them quite a lot about who their clients are, so that I can try to get in their voice.

So I think it’s even if you do end up hiring it out, try to learn it yourself first so that you even know what good copy looks like. Because if you hire it out and you hire, like I did, you hire somebody who sucks a copywriting, then you’re not even gonna know what good copy and what bad copy is. You have to be able to at least recognize, like yes, that’s good copy right there.

So that’s what I would recommend. Trying to learn the basics of it.

Learn the basics

Samantha: I joined a ton of Facebook groups on copywriting. I think a good one is The Cult of Copy. That’s a really interesting one. It has quite a few members.

Digital Marketer has quite a lot of free resource is around copywriting. They have a lot of paid resources too, but they do have a fair amount of free stuff.

Ah, and then, you know, it’s just like if somebody gets interested in nutrition, they start following all the people who talk about nutrition. So if you’re interested in copywriting, start following all the people who talk about copyrighting and you will pick up some things.

Watch what your competitors do

And then just also watching what your competitors are doing.

I don’t know if a lot of people don’t know this, but Facebook has an ads library. I think it’s just like facebook.com/ads/library. I don’t know, maybe you can find it and link it in the notes.

But it’s basically all of your competitor’s ads just like there for you to browse. So if you make it a habit of every day for 15 minutes, going in, looking at ads and actually, like you said Erica, studying them and asking yourself like, well, why are they saying it this way? Why is this working?

Generally, ads that have a lot of shares and a lot of comments are good ads because that means either A) it’s gotten a lot of engagement or B) it was performing so well that they kept it running for a really, really long time.

So look for the ads that have a lot of comments and shares, and then ask yourself, Why? Why is that ad effective? And then when you start following a lot of your competitors online, like Wild Fit or like Dr. Axe, or whatever, then you’ll see their ads and stuff pop up in your feed and you can look at them and analyze them.

Go through and click everything and sign up for everything with a junk email account. Keep a separate email, like your junk email, that you can go through and look at the headlines. Look at the email copy. Look at what they’re trying to sell you and look at how they’re doing it because they’re doing it because it works.

And so if you want yours to work, you need to do something kind of similar.

How do you know if your marketing is working?

Erica: How often do you go back and try to figure out what’s working or not working? What should you be looking for?

Samantha: Yeah, so it’s all about the data, really. Like it really is.

And so it’s just like nutrition. And I know I keep saying that. I’m just trying to empower you. That because you can manage a tube feed, you can definitely do copywriting.

Like, you go back and you look at their labs the next day and you say, Okay, well, this tube feeding formula had a little bit too much potassium. Even if you never practiced in a hospital, you did that as an intern.

And so if you are, um, I don’t know if this is just dietitians listening, but I know all of you have done something that required that analytical side of your brain in order to achieve that.

What statistics to monitor

Samantha: So you just go back and you say, How did it do? If it’s a Facebook post, how many people commented on it? How many people shared it? How many people liked it? Did it get more traction?

If it gets more comments and shares, that’s more traction, if you’re doing organic.

If you’re doing ads, you want to look at your cost per click and also your costs per lead.

Those are the most important metrics there. How much did it cost to get somebody to even click on your ad?

Um, there’s two different types of clicks on Facebook. There’s like the “see more” click, and then there’s the link click that takes them to the landing page.

So you want to make sure that you’re evaluating what’s taking people to the landing page. Cause if they’re clicking “see more”, that’s a good thing, but really, what you want to do is get them on the landing page.

Erica: So “see more” would be like expanding the text, basically, if you wrote something really long.

Samantha: Yeah. All my copy is really long, because that’s what works really well.

But, uh, so you’ll have two different click through rates there. You’ll have the click through rate of any click at all, even if they expand the text, and then the click through rate to your page, and then the cost per click, which does fluctuate based on the time of year.

So if it’s the holiday season… like we just, um, I know this is coming out in January, but inbetween Black Friday and Christmas, your cost per click is higher because all the e commerce people are pushing out their ads, so you definitely have to spend a little bit more to get the same amount of leads.

But your cost per click is what to look for. And that’s what’s going to tell you if your copy on your ad is converting.

And then your cost per lead is gonna tell you if your landing page is converting.

Um, and so you just look at the data of what is working and what’s not, and then you just adjust it until it works.

Erica: So helpful. I think understanding those different terms is really gonna help people know what they need to look at and why it matters.

How much should you spend on advertising?

Erica: Before we wrap up, just really quick, what do you think is an average amount that someone should be spending, if there is one, on maybe Facebook ads, for example?

And what is a good cost per lead or cost per click? Just something ballpark-y for people who have no frame of reference.

Samantha: Yeah, and I didn’t when I first started. I really wished somebody would give me one, so I’m happy to do that.

Um, you know, guideline is you should spend about 10% of your revenue on marketing. That’s just a rough guideline.

You spend whatever you can. But I tell you, one thing is, if you don’t spend any money on marketing then you don’t really have a business, right? Marketing is part of business.

So I would say, if you can’t spend anything, at least look into your personal budget and see what you can cut out of that and spend that amount.

So, for example, when I first started my business, my husband and I cut off our cable and, um, we cut off a lot of our, you know, extrafluous…. Is that a word? Superfluous? I think that’s the word I was looking for, expenses that we didn’t really need, and then we spent it on Facebook ads.

So even just starting out, you can spend like, $5 a day just to start collecting some data.

And a lot of the clients that hire me to do their ads for them, we start them at $5 a day.

I’m realistic with them, and I say, like $5 a day is just gonna get you a little bit of an idea of what’s working and what’s not. But it’s really slow to find out at $5/day. If you have $50 a day to spend on it and you have that money, I’m not telling anybody to go into debt in order to run Facebook ads, but if you have the money to spend, the more you spend, the faster you’ll learn what’s working and what’s not. And then the faster you can change it to make something work.

But don’t spend money you don’t have. You know, reinvest some of the money that you make in your business by seeing clients back into advertising, since you can get more clients.

And a general cost per lead that’s pretty good? Um, I get leads for around 50 cents to a dollar, but I have been doing this quite a few years and I’ve gotten pretty good at it.

So if you’re first starting out, I would say if you can get leads for somewhere between the $2 and $5 range, then you’re doing pretty good. And then just keep testing and trying to improve it.

I would kill an ad when it gets to the point where it spent 3 to 4 times of your goal for your cost per lead.

So if you want your cost per lead to be $5, and your ad spent about $20, I would just kill it and then try something else. And you just think about how many times we waste 20 bucks in our lives like, you know? Like you can waste 20 bucks on Facebook ads because the purpose is it’s helping you learn what works on Facebook ads, right? So it’s a $20 well spent.

Um, I spent quite a few thousand dollars on Facebook ads, and that’s really what helps you learn what works and what doesn’t. I tell you, it’s a lot easier than running a newspaper print ad and then having to, you know, spend thousands of dollars when it’s not working right?

Erica: And it’s so much easier to track how it’s working because you can see what the clicks and then what people are doing on your website.

Is it bad to run an ad directly to a sales page?

Erica: I feel like I could talk about just Facebook ads for, like two hours, but I just really have one last question. When you run the Facebook ad, I’ve seen people say like, oh, don’t run the ad right to your sales page, because then potentially those are cold people arriving straight on your sales page and they’re gonna be, like, kind of put off by that.

Like, how do you feel? What should you be running ads to? What are your strategies?

Samantha: Yeah, it so depends on the product and the price of the product.

So, if you have an entry-level product that’s like 20 bucks or 27 bucks or something like that and maybe it’s like a challenge or something like that, then, yeah, you could run a Facebook ad directly to it and see how it converts.

And at the point that you know it costs more to get people to buy it than the product is worth, then I would kill it. So if you’re spending $27 to even get somebody to purchase it then, you know…

I mean, maybe if it’s breaking even, you could potentially get those customers to buy something else, um, like an up-sell, which is another word that a lot of marketers use. But, um, so it was probably worth it just to get the customer to acquire the customer.

A lot of times, people plan to break even for the first purchase of the customer. Even brick and mortar businesses do that.

Ah, so I don’t think that there’s a rule that you can’t do it. I just think it is more challenging because people who know you are way more willing to buy from you than people who don’t know you.

So usually what I do is run some of my videos to people, and then that’s why you’ll see if you go in my page, and I think it’s like facebook.com/SamanthaLeighRD, that they’ll see my videos and you’ll see some of them have thousands and tens of thousands of views.

It’s not because I have a great organic following. It’s because I ran ads to them, and so, and then when they watched the video that shows me that they’re interested and then I show them another video.

And then when they watched that video, then I show them another video, and then maybe after three or four videos, I’ll show them an offer. And then if they don’t purchase the offer, and then I put them back in a video sequence.

I show them a video, a different video. They don’t keep getting the same video over and over, and then another video and then another video and then an offer. And that kind of helps people know who you are.

And then they are way more likely to purchase if they watched a few of your videos.

Value, Value, Value, Offer

Erica: This sounds very familiar. It’s kind of like what I do, or am about to start doing…. I have it all written and I haven’t pressed go… I’m waiting till my next live launch is over, but I have sort of a system like that set up with my email marketing. Not live videos, but recorded stuff.

Samantha: Yeah, it’s very similar to email marketing in that like you, you have an email sequence, right, and then you show them an offer. But then you don’t just show them offer, offer, offer, offer, offer. Like people would just unsubscribe. And on Facebook they’ll just hide your ads. Like it’s the same kind of thing as unsubscribing.

So if you want to get people interested, you need to give them some content, right? So it all comes back to content, so you give them a little bit of content. You give them a little bit of something to focus on, and then you show them an offer. So that you’re not just constantly hitting them with offers.

Erica: And then thinking about how the content lines up with the offer.

It’s like, so obvious now, but when you’re first starting out, I feel like it’s not really that organized. After you fall on your face a few times, you’re like, Ohhhhh, I get it.

Maintaining brand alignment

Samantha: It’s a little harder to do than it is to talk about.

I had a client one time that had a sequence that was about, I think it was about menopause, right? And then she showed them an offer that was about sleep. And to her, it made perfect sense.

She was like, well, if you’re in menopause, you’re probably not sleeping. And so, therefore, you would want a program about how to sleep better to help with your menopause symptoms.

But it simply was not converting because it didn’t line up exactly. And people get confused. And like Don Miller says, if you confuse people, then you lose them.

So they didn’t understand why they were seeing an offer about a sleep program when they had been seeing a whole bunch of stuff about menopause.

So you just, you really do have to be careful that, you know, if your content you’re running is about anxiety, your program should be about anxiety. If your content you’re running is about diabetes, your program should be about diabetes,

But sometimes it’s easier to say than to do.

Erica: Totally. Then just having a second set of eyes looking at your stuff I feel like I can be very helpful.

Well, thank you so much for all of your wisdom today. I learned a ton. I know everybody listening is probably taking serious notes, and probably people are going to want to follow you to keep up with all this great insight that you have.

How to keep in touch with Samantha

Erica: So where should people go if they want to keep in touch?

Samantha: Well, I am on Facebook. That’s where I hang out most of the time because that’s where I do most of my marketing.

So my personal profile, I actually do a lot of business stuff there. So you can follow me there. It’s facebook.com/SamanthaLeighNutrition, I believe it is. Or just type in Samantha Leigh Scruggs.

And then I also have a few pages –  Marketing Practices with Samantha Leigh, and then my main page that I run nutrition content on is Samantha Leigh RD.

Erica: Great. And I’m linking to all of this in the show notes for everyone.

Do you have a place for people to go to, perhaps, if they would like to work with you? Should they just send you a DM? What’s your process for that?

Samantha: Yeah, send me a message on messenger.

And that’s, um, you know, it’s funny because people are like, “Do you have a website?” and I’m like, actually, no, I’m too busy for a website right now. I have my nutrition practice website, but just DM me and we’ll get you taken care of.

Erica: See, that’s so great, though. Like, you don’t have to have every single tiny thing in order to have a successful business. I feel the same way. I totally neglected my Unconventional RD blog. I was just basically present in the Facebook group and I sold $70,000 worth of courses in one year.

So it’s like, if you’re helping and you have your audience and you can connect with them, that’s a great starting point, and you can continue to pin it down from there. But don’t let it hold you back, for anyone listening. Don’t need to have every little thing that people say you need to have.

It’s more about the connection, I think, with your audience.

Samantha: Yeah, I totally agree.

Erica: Great. Well, thanks again for being here. I had a great time chatting with you, and I hope we can have you back sometime.

Samantha: Thank you. That was fun.

Erica: I really hope you guys enjoyed that episode and have some amazing takeaways to apply to your own business.

If you’re looking for the links, to anything that we mentioned in today’s episode, just head over to the unconventionalrd.com/episode004 and you can find the show notes there with links to everything that we talked about.

Thanks so much and I look forward to chatting next week.

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Erica Julson is a registered dietitian turned digital marketing pro. She has over 12 years of experience blogging and building online businesses and has taught over 900 wellness professionals inside her signature program, SEO Made Simple.