Today we are joined by dietitian Amy Gorin, and we are talking all about the untapped potential of working with the media!
And I say “untapped” because this is a really amazing area that you could specialize in, yet relatively few of us have even dipped our toes into this arena.
And spoiler alert: This type of work can be very lucrative. Amy earns over $200,000 per year as a media dietitian – like whaaaat!
In this episode, Amy breaks down the different types of media work available to dietitians and the 12 core steps you need to know in order to succeed.
Don't miss this one!
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More About Amy Gorin
Amy Gorin, MS, RDN is a nationally recognized media dietitian in Stamford, CT. She runs two businesses, Plant Based with Amy, and Master the Media.
Amy is a regular contributor to the media and is one of the most-quoted media dietitians in the country. She’s completed and written more than 2,000 combined media interviews and freelance articles for top-tier media outlets.
Amy was a magazine and web editor for many years before becoming a registered dietitian. While on staff at publications including Health, Prevention, Parents, and Weight Watchers Magazine, she learned all the secrets to becoming sought after by the media—and now shares this media wisdom through the Master the Media Coaching Program. The coaching program provides 65 CPEUs to registered dietitian nutritionists (RDNs).
The program has helped these health pros make their stamp in the world of media, secure high-paying brand partnerships, land more and higher-paying private-practice clients, and get more free time!
Master the Media graduates have secured placements in Food Network, Healthline, Forbes, Fast Company, Men’s Health, Women’s Health, U.S. News, MSN, Yahoo, and many, many more.
Connect With Amy
- Website: masterthemedia.co
- Twitter: @amydgorin
- LinkedIn: Amy Gorin, MS, RDN
- Instagram: @masterthemedia
- Facebook Group: Media Mastery for Dietitians & Health Professionals
- YouTube: Plant Based With Amy
- TikTok: @plantbasedwithamy
Welcome. Welcome to the unconventional RD podcast. Today we are joined by dietitian, Amy Gorin, and we are talking all about the untapped potential of working with the media. And I say untapped, because this is a really amazing area that you could specialize in and earn great money from as a dietitian yet, relatively few of us have even dipped our toes into this arena.
And I will admit working with the media is not really an area that I have a lot of expertise in. So Amy is here today to share with us all the different ways we can work with the media as healthcare professionals and how having our credentials can really give us a leg up. And spoiler alert, this type of work can be very lucrative.
Amy shares with us in this episode that she earns over $200,000 per year as a media dietitian. Like what? So, Hey, if working with the media is something you have. I've been interested in. I hope that this gets you super jazzed up about all the opportunity that exists in this space. And gets you excited to take action and dive in.
And of course it's not all about the money. So we definitely explore some of the non-monetary Terri benefits you can receive as well. Like authority, boost connections, new opportunities, and even helping just to raise the perceived authority and expertise of dietitians as a whole, to the general public.
In this episode, Amy breaks down the different types of media work that exists out there from getting quoted in magazines and articles to freelance writing, to doing TV To collaborating with and consulting for brands. Then she shares with us the core steps that she thinks dietitians need in order to succeed in this arena.
When you go, go over everything from creating a niche to understanding how to connect with the media, to learning, how to talk with the media, how to share your media mentions to attract more opportunities, your way, how to pitch collaborations and pitch yourself for five figure projects and understanding the value of your endorsement so that you're not undercharging.
And also how to protect yourself from common legal pitfalls when entering collaborations with brands. And one of the most exciting parts is that this type of work doesn't. It need to have as long of a lead time as other types of brand and business building tactics. Like the ones that I talk about with SEO.
You can dive right in and start getting opportunities after just a few months of strategic focused effort. So I hope that you find this episode very exciting and enjoyable to listen to. And of course, if you want to connect with me or Amy, my free Facebook group, the unconventional RD community on Facebook.
Is the best place to hop in and ask questions. There are many, many dietitians and other wellness professionals in there who would love to connect with you and cheer you on as you embark on your unconventional career efforts. So don't be shy and join our amazing community of over 14,000 people today.
Now let's get into the episode.
Erica Julson: Hi Amy. Thank you for being a guest on the podcast today. I am really excited to talk with you about your extensive experience working in the world of media and also like enlighten my listeners to what that even means, and have you share all the ways that dietitians can work with the media to grow their businesses and their income.
So thank you for taking time outta your schedule to be here today.
Amy Gorin: Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
Erica Julson: So I guess I, I like to start out a lot of times, um, when I'm talking to people and get a little bit of their origin story cuz I always find it's so interesting all the different ways that people choose to use their RD credential and how they got there.
So I know that you didn't like come out of the gate on the RD path, so what were you doing before that and why did you decide to go back to school and become an rd?
Amy Gorin: Yeah, so that's a great question and my background is actually in journalism. So I went to journalism undergrad and journalism grad school and back then, I'm dating myself a little bit here.
My focus was in magazine journalism. As you know, magazines are kind of not a thing of the past, but not a thing of the present either. Um, so my first job was at Prevention Magazine and I was working in the nutrition department and I. Probably two hour long conversation with an omega-3 researcher and they were super nice and patient and I explained the intricacies of EPA and DHA and their like organic chemistry, makeup and everything.
And I just kind of had the thought, I love to be able to understand this in a few minutes, not a few hours. So I started thinking about going back to school. So I was a magazine editor for about eight years, and so I worked at Prevention and Health Parents, American Baby, Weight Watchers Magazine and Weight watchers.com.
So for seven of those eight years, I was going to night school to become a dietitian.
Erica Julson: Wow. Dedication, .
Amy Gorin: Yeah. Looking back, I'm just like, that was a lot of school and I'm glad I did it then. Not now.
Erica Julson: Yeah. Cause you probably had to go and do all the science prereqs, huh?
Amy Gorin: Oh my gosh. All the science prereqs that I honestly avoided in my undergrad.
And I just remember like, and thankfully, you know, cause I never considered myself like a hardcore science person by any means. But thankfully taking, like, as an adult, when you're taking organic chemistry and nutritional biochemistry, you're kind of like, Okay, I know the reason I'm doing this, and the next day I'd go look at a study and I'd be able to understand it.
So I immediately saw the reason that I was doing all of it, and that did help.
Erica Julson: It's so interesting. I was interviewing someone, a month or two ago. Went to culinary school and then got excited to become an RD after that. So it's, it's really interesting, when people are doing one thing and then they get some sort of like spark of inspiration from either meeting an RD or just like getting really into nutrition science.
Like, that was me too. Cuz I started out in, neuro imaging research .
Amy Gorin: Wow.
Erica Julson: Yeah. And I thought I wanted to get like my PhD in like psycho neuro immunology. And then, yeah, I. Really loved nutrition, science and reading about nutrition and cooking. And I was like, Oh, hey, there's a whole career for this.
Amy Gorin: Yeah, I think it's
really fascinating too because you can't, like when you're 20 something, you can't just wake up one day and say, This is what I wanna do with the rest of my life. It kind of just has to unfold organically.
Erica Julson: Yep. And not every school even has the option to be an rd that, that's kind of what happened to me too.
So I, it wasn't even a thing I could do at the college that I ended up going to. So what are you doing today as an rd? So you started as a journalist, you went back to school for many years at night on top of your job to to get this credential, and then now what are you doing with it?
Amy Gorin: Yeah,
so when I finished nutrition school, I actually just thought I was gonna go back into magazines. And I remember like the day before I left my job to go do my dietetic internship, I went to my editor in chief and I said, Okay, you know, I wanna come back. And like, my program was thankfully short, like seven months.
I wanna come back in seven months and here's the title I want. And she just looked at me and she's like, There's no way on earth you're gonna wanna come back. And I never even, I finished my internship and everything, took my exam. I never even contacted her . I just was like, You know what? I'm gonna try this media dietitian thing that, like I've been, I had spent the last eight years interviewing people about, you know, I'd interviewed these media dietitians, which I am now for stories.
I was writing for magazines and websites and, um, I just thought, you know, worst case I won't like this and I'll go get, you know, quote unquote normal job. But it's been, that was 2015. And I've never looked back like it is so much fun. Um, and I'll explain in a minute like what a media dietitian is. Um, but it's just, it's like, it's just so much fun.
You get to work with the media, you get to work with brands, and, and every day is fun.
Erica Julson: And I think you have such a unique perspective now, that could set you apart from maybe some other media dietitians cuz you worked on the flip side, like you were, the media kind of . Like,
Amy Gorin: it's super helpful to know like how those sites work.
Like I actually had a conversation today with a PR firm and they want a corporate training and, you know, writing for their, their, um, their group. And it's like, you just have, you do have all these different opportunities.
Erica Julson: So are you happy with your decision to become an rd?
Amy Gorin: So happy. If you had asked me like way back when, what I was gonna do with my career, I never would.
Envisioned it playing out this way. But I am so grateful every day that I found nutrition and dietetics and that I get to be in this field and just like wake up every day and do this really fun job that I get to talk to. You know, when you're a media dietitian, you get to mass communicate to millions of people, and I think that's one of the really cool parts of it.
Erica Julson: As someone who's trying to work with the media around the topic of nutrition, do you think that having the R rd credential is a big asset, like worth it for people who might be wanting to do that type of work?
Amy Gorin: A thousand percent because as. I mean, as you know, cuz you have, you know, like when you're looking at it, even from a perspective of blogging, like you have, the Google just boosts that you get from having that health credential behind your name.
Um, and that's that endorsement, like having that health credential, having that rd rd n after your name. That's why, you know, brands will wanna work with you. That's why reporters wanna interview that you, that's just why you get all these opportunities. And if you were, you know, just a quote unquote influencer and you have nutrition knowledge, but you don't have the RD credential, you might get a lot of similar opportunities.
But to be honest, you're not gonna get the amount of money that you're gonna get just because the value of your endorsement isn't.
Erica Julson: Yeah, that's a good point. I'm sure we'll dive more into this, coming up, but I haven't interviewed a lot of media rds, so, I don't think I've asked that specific question about like whether you see a payoff specifically in this realm, for having the credential.
And it's so funny too, I know we're in a lot of the same Facebook groups and stuff for dietitians and. A lot of times there's some threads about people who are a little, dissatisfied maybe with the pay or the opportunities that they are aware of. But I mean this is kind of the whole point I wanna make with this episode, is like the untapped potential here for being a media rd that maybe just people don't even know exists as an option
Amy Gorin: So there's so much potential and I, I, I know, I'm sure we'll get more into this, but like what I always tell people is, cause I get a lot of people who come, who come to me and they say, you know, I'm interested in this line of work, but I don't like being the center of attention, or I don't like having, being all over social media.
And you don't have to be like, there's ways to work on both sides, either side. Just whatever you want, whatever your comfort level is.
Erica Julson: Okay, so well let's just dive into it, . So what is the media when we're like talking about being a media rd, what does that mean and how does that apply to like, what you might do as an rd?
Amy Gorin: Absolutely, and I think that's a great question. So media is both traditional media and social media. So let me break it down. Um, so me, you know, you have print magazines, you have newspapers, you have websites, you have even e-newsletters. You know, like Health Magazine has a newsletter that they send out to thousands of people.
So those are your traditional media streams. Then you have broadcasting media. So that's tv, radio, podcasts, like what we're doing now. That's media. And then you have social media, and a lot of people think, oh, social media is totally separate from media. But in today's world, it kind of all converges. Like, you know, I've done Facebook Lives and in, you know, things like that.
Instagram Lives for Everyday Health, which is a media company, but they're using their other platforms to communicate with the public.
Erica Julson: So what does it mean to be a media rd then? Like, what, what are you doing?
Amy Gorin: Yeah, so it can mean many different things. So I'm gonna walk you through kind of a few of the different things it can mean.
Um, so first and foremost, it means that you're working with the media. And this is, um, people always ask me is that, you know, paid work is that unpaid work? Working with the media is largely unpaid work. Um, we can, you know, I wanna talk in a few minutes about like how you can get paid for that, but I kind of call my, that my, you know, marketing budget where I'm spending maybe a day a week of my life doing free media so that I can get all these other opportunities that come with it.
Um, then another piece of that is freelance writing. So you're not only getting quoted in the media or getting featured on tv, which could, is most likely free. You could also be, you know, writing. So like I write for Food Network and Everyday Health, I'm getting paid for that. So that's an income streak.
Then, and this is the really cool part, , you have what are called brand partnerships and this is really the. Lucrative. Lucrative part of this, like you can earn six figures, multiple six figures from this, and this is when a brand hires you. And this is what I meant when I said it could be in front of the scenes or behind the scenes.
So you could be hired for behind the scenes. Let's talk about that. You could be hired as a consultant where you're consulting on a nutrition side. Maybe you're helping the brand create nutrition messaging that they're gonna use on their website. Or maybe you're creating a health practitioner's toolkit that they're gonna put on their.
Or maybe you're writing a blog poster, creating recipes, but your name isn't necessarily attached to it, but your skillset as a dietitian lends itself to creating those deliverables. Then on the other side, if you're talking about consumer facing, you could be splashed on the homepage of a brand's website, you know, with your testimonial about the product.
Um, you could create your recipes with your name on them and those could be shared on social media, on the website. I've created recipe books for brands. Um, you could create content. Then you get into kind of like really fun deliverables. Like you can host media events, you can work at trade shows as the talent.
And you know, there's just honestly like it goes on and on and on and on. Um, but these opportunities, it's not gonna take as much time as some of your other work as a dietitian and it's gonna pay a lot.
Erica Julson: I know you have a. Training program to help people work with the media and quote unquote master the media.
So what, out of all these opportunities, like what do you specialize in helping people with?
Amy Gorin: Yeah, so the master of the media coaching program, which is what I run that literally walks you through, there's 12 steps of the program. Um, so we walk through creating a niche, which is really important for working with the media.
You know, what are you talking to the media about? For me it's plant-based nutrition. For you, it might be diabetes or you know, health at every size. Um, and then we work through how to connect with the media and how to talk to the media in a way that they're actually gonna put you in, in the article and quote you.
And then how to share. All of that media attention on your social media platforms, on your website to get the attention of brand partnerships. And then there's a huge amount of the program that's how to connect with brands, how to pitch yourself to them, how to position yourself in a way that you could earn, you know, five figure projects from brand partnerships.
And then there's a huge part about just like, what is the value of your endorsement? Making sure that you don't shortchange yourself. Like if you, if something's worth 10,000, don't charge a thousand for it. That kinda a thing. And then protecting yourself legally so that you're not signing away themes for life that maybe you shouldn't
And, um, and so then, um, yeah, we, it's really, really fun because we have people who are just getting into these brand partnerships like within a couple of months of doing all of this.
Erica Julson: I love that. Yeah. I just made a bunch of notes as you were saying this cause I'm like, okay, I wanna like bring some of these things back up.
I love that you have like a little, almost like a framework, like the steps that you go through of, you know, what people really need to know. So maybe we can kind of like higher level dive into some of that stuff. But I guess before we get into that, why are you passionate about this?
Like why do you think it's important for dietitians to learn how to work with the media and become visible?
Amy Gorin: Yeah, that's a great question and I actually get that question quite a bit. And it really comes down to dietitians are the authority on nutrition and dietetics. And if we're not being quoted in the media and being featured in the media, some other quote unquote influencer who has less authority and less education, they're gonna get quoted and potentially even spread misinformation.
I'm not saying that they definitely will, but the fact that you're a credentialed health expert means that you're gonna share that science back. , you know, re research and information that needs to be shared. And when you communicate with the media, you get to share that with millions of people. Like if you're in, you know, if you get featured in msn, that's millions and millions of people here are gonna see that article.
And that's a lot of eyeballs versus, you know, private practice is great, but it has its limitations of you're working one on one or in small. .
Erica Julson: Yeah. And I feel the same way about blogging, like as a way to get your brand and yourself out there. I see a lot of conversation about, people wanting like AND to do more things for us and like get our name out there and help establish us as an authority.
But like this is an actionable way that you as an individual can make a difference and move the needle as well, by being a part of this movement to like get more dietitians out there online and in person and representing for companies. And just like that's really, I think a big part of becoming more visible is like, Like individual person needs to become more visible as well.
And then collectively it's like, Oh, what does the rd at the end of that person's name mean? Like, that's honestly actually how I found out about what a dietitian was, a dietitian was on like the Today Show or something and I was like, Oh, you know, there's a whole career where people specialize in food and stuff like that.
So, it does make an impact whether you even realize it or not. Even with this podcast, like people listen and I never hear from them, but I'm still in their ear and making an impact. So you just never know, just by putting yourself out there
Amy Gorin: and Totally. I think that, and as you know, with blogging, you're either gonna hear the people who really love your stuff or really hate your stuff, but not all those in the middle people.
Erica Julson: Yep. Yep. If you're gonna put your own self out there, there's a little bit of a thick skin that you'll, you'll develop, but I think it's worth it. And it makes a bigger difference than just you as well,
Amy Gorin: yeah, and I think it's so cool when you look at a brand you love and you see that, oh, they're working with a dietitian, they're working with someone like me, and they really care about having that official stamp of approval from a dietitian.
Erica Julson: Yeah. Yeah. Even before I went back to school to become an rd I was so intrigued basically by kind of, what the work that you were doing.
You know, maybe I'm reading like Eating Well magazine, and there's like a whole column written by a dietitian in the beginning of the magazine, like every, every month or whatever. And I was like, how do people get into that? Like, that's so interesting. So yeah, I guess let's dive into to some of these opportunities.
Can we just use that as an example? Like maybe somebody wants to be a recurring writer for a certain outlet. Like how do they get an opportunity like that, like pull the curtain back and share how these connections are made.
Amy Gorin: Yeah, for sure. So there's a few different ways to get in the door.
Um, the one that, the route that I. and it's really just like you build your way up. You, you know, maybe work with local publications. So like when I was in college, I was working at a local newspaper and a local magazine, and I got some writing examples published that way. Then, I mean, I was pretty lucky I got my like, quote unquote big break.
Like when I was still in college. I had an article published in Women's Health and then that led to all the other opportunities that came after that. Um, but let's pretend like if you're taking it literally one step at a time, um, say you say you have like a local newspaper that you want it kind of just like reach out to them and ask, you know, Hey, I have these ideas for a column.
Maybe. Have you ever considered having a nutrition columnist? Um, then there's also, and this is what I love in our field, there's just so many different opportunities. So we have, if you're a member of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, there's the dietitian practice groups and each of them have a newsletter.
So they're always looking for writers. and you don't get paid for them. But it's a really great example of, you know, you can get your writing and you're writing published. And that's a great example of, okay, here's a published clip. So writing, published writing, that's called a clip. Um, you know, and then you can also start a blog.
Like, that's actually my favorite way for people to have experiences because it's not being edited. It's you're really unfiltered writing and people can see, you know, okay, here's some of my blog posts. They can really see if you're a good, strong writer. Yeah. Um, and then you can use that experience to pitch yourself to the Eating Well Editor that, you know, food network editor and say, you know, here's examples of my.
Erica Julson: Yeah, that's actually how I got into freelance writing. I had no formal experience, but I had a blog, so , I didn't actually pitch myself. I applied to a formal job position, um, when I was freelancing my, my main freelance gig. Uh, but that was adequate. Like they were fine with my own blog posts that they liked them.
So that, that was a great way to show sample work as well. So in terms of pitching, let's say you wanna like pitch yourself for like a partnership thing. How do you even find out who to contact
Amy Gorin: Yeah, that's a great question.
And sometimes it's, you kind of have to spend a little bit of time sleuthing. So, um, so in the, in the master of the media coaching program, we actually have some downloadables of heres like all the producers you would ever wanna contact and here's all the magazine editors and so we just save you all that time.
But if you're going down the rabbit holes yourself, um, LinkedIn is really a great way to kind of. Put in, Okay, I'm looking for an eating wall editor, or I'm looking for this person at Bob's Red Mill. And you can kind of just see who comes up in your network. You're never gonna wanna directly contact them through LinkedIn.
Erica Julson: And it was about to say like, how
the heck do you get your thing red amongst
all the spam ?
Amy Gorin: Yeah. But it's just a way, sometimes all you need is that information of who the person's name is. Um, and then, so there's like a multi-step process. If you're sleuthing, there's. What you can do is find a press release of that company and say, maybe it's like a financial press release of how much money Bob's Red made this quarter.
But you get an email format from that press release, and then you can take the person's name from LinkedIn and kind of piece together your own puzzle. And that's literally like in that, what I just said might take you like an hour of your time to figure all of that out. So it's not a fast process by any means, but you kind of just have to, It's way better than DMing people on Instagram and just like hoping that your message get gets read.
Erica Julson: So I'll just flush that out for people. So basically what you're saying is you find some email from the company and most large companies for use, like a standardized email. System, I guess like in terms of how they ma give you your email as a new employee.
So it maybe it's like first name at Soandso Company. Maybe it's like first initial dot last name at Soandso company and then you can take it from there. , once you know your side of contact. Exactly.
Amy Gorin: Yeah. Yes. And thank you for summarizing that.
All right, so then you figure out who to contact and then, I guess if you don't have any connection with them, you're just coming up with like a proposal of how you think you could benefit them, kind of.
Yeah. So I always like to
kinda encourage telling some, kinda a personal story, whether it's, you know, I use this with my family every day. Like, we make these pancakes for breakfast every Sunday morning, or I recommend these products to my clients for XYZ reason. Like, maybe your niche is diabetes and the product really helps control blood sugar and you're really bringing that home.
You know, I think just having. Like, you don't wanna just go into like, I want you to hire me. You wanna tell some kind of a personal connection or maybe you just did an interview with, you know, a media outlet and you're talking about their product and you wanna share that. So some kind of entry in and then, you know, if you wanna send along like three ideas for
Erica Julson: working together.
Hold on. I'm having an earthquake right now. Okay. It's small. Are you serious? Yeah. . . Are you ok? Yeah. No, it was small, but like our whole house just started shaking. Okay. Oh my gosh. Does this happen a lot? No, I've lived here, we moved in like December and we haven't had any earthquakes yet.
, I'm sorry, I totally interrupted you.
Amy Gorin: I think you were
Erica Julson: talking about sharing a personal story. Oh
Amy Gorin: yeah. So, um, and then you can, you'd wanna send anywhere like two or three ideas to the brand.
Um, chances are whatever you send to the brand isn't gonna be, if you do end up working for them, that's not gonna be the thing that they hire you for. But you're really just trying to show you, you've done your research, maybe you can figure out what's the gap that they're not currently covering. Like maybe there's a great recipe product and they don't have any recipes on their website.
So you can propose doing recipe work together. Um, and then really the whole point of your pitch email is to get them on the phone so you can have their conversation and see what their actual needs are and then where you fit into that. And if they are even working with experts with influence right now.
Erica Julson: That makes a lot of sense actually. So Don't overthink it maybe too much. Like you're just trying to propose something interesting.
Exactly. Yes. .
Amy Gorin: And you kinda don't wanna propose anything that's too basic, but also something that's like not too out of the ordinary, if that makes sense.
Like you don't wanna say, Oh I think we should write a book together on this particular topic. You know, you wouldn't wanna get that too specific, but you could say, um, you don't wanna say something like, I think you should work with a dietitian. Cause that's too basic. Mm-hmm. , you wanna have something, You know, maybe it's like, okay, I think if we create some really photogenic recipes for your website and have nutrition information for them, and like maybe that's what you propose,
Erica Julson: you know?
Yeah. I'm imagining as a business owner, if someone was pitching me, I would want to be kind of intrigued and understand. Oh, this why I should be thinking about this, how it could benefit me, and why you would be a great person to hire.
I imagine if you like hit those points and make it like a no brainer, then it's like, oh, okay, sure. Let's talk about it. Whereas if you're a little too vague or, not clear, I think on the benefit you're actually providing, then I imagine maybe you wouldn't get a response.
Amy Gorin: Yeah, How you think about social media is a good example. So we, when you're doing social media marketing, you and email marketing to you, like, you repeat yourself over and over and over, and sometimes you're like, you know, I can say to myself, Well, I've said this exact same thing with different words like five times over the last month.
And I feel like I'm being repetitive. But the fact is that the people in my audience don't know me. So they don't know these things about me. And different people are reading different things. And so if I take the time to spell out to a brand that I'm pitching, you know, my name is Amy. I live in the New York City area.
I am a media dietitian. I used to work at these magazines and now, you know, my niche is plant based eating, and I, I do these other media things and here's why you should hire me. I can't assume that they already knew that. So I'm, it's kind of like you have to, maybe they took the time to look at my website and they know that, but in all likelihood they didn't.
And so always spend that little time to summarize what you do, who you are, what you can bring to the
Erica Julson: table. Yeah. Same thing with, pitching yourself for podcasts. Like if, for example, somebody emailed me and was like, Hi, can I be on your podcast? And that was it. It's probably not gonna like go anywhere.
you're probably not gonna even
Amy Gorin: reply to that, let's be honest.
Erica Julson: But the best ones are when people are like, Hi. I love your show. I know, they understand exactly who is listening, which is a big part, , like understanding the audience probably of the brand that you're pitching. And then these are the things that I can talk about, if you do that work for me, I'm like, Okay, cool.
That's amazing. Let's talk about this. Go, you know, versus it's like, Exactly, Hey, what do you want? And it's totally open ended and vague. Then I have to do the work.
Amy Gorin: And you wanna feel when you're on the side that's receiving the pitches, you wanna just, sometimes all you want out of it is, You just wanna feel seen and, and heard and that the other person took that time to do the research.
Even if, like I said, those are never gonna be the ideas that you actually move forward with.
Erica Julson: Exactly. Yep. Yep. Great points. So you said first you teach people how to pitch yourself and have your niche and be clear on that. And then, you mentioned that you talk about connecting and getting quotes in the media.
Maybe we can talk about that for a little bit. So there's obviously work you can do and get paid for with brands. But there's this whole other world of media mentions, which dovetails a little into my world of blogging. Can we talk about that and why it's beneficial to be mentioned in the media and why it's worth your time?
Yes. Present yourself as an expert to be quoted even though it's unpaid .
Amy Gorin: Exactly. And this is probably one of my, I guess I'm gonna just say biggest pet peeves. When people say, Oh, like this reporter asks so many questions. And I mean, there is a limit like with so many questions. Um, and I just don't wanna, you know, it's like, oh, that's just gonna take so much of my time.
But if you think about what you're getting out of the time that you invest, it's so much like you're able to put that, you know, as that uh, media outlet in your, as CNN section, you're able to feature it on your website. Like brands will see you in it. And so the benefits of it is so huge. Um, so when I say like, I spend a day a week doing free media, I really mean it, you know, so like that includes obviously this podcast interview we're doing right now that includes a US news interview I'm doing tonight, whenever I stop working, cuz it's been a crazy day.
Um, and there's, you know, 10 to 12 of those a week for me. Um, and I. Always just really say yes whenever I can to them, because these are amazing opportunities. If someone just comes to me and says, Do you wanna be featured in US News and Food Network and you know, live strong and eat this, not that, like the answer is a hundred percent yes.
And it does take time to answer those questions. You know, maybe it takes anywhere from 10 minutes to 45 minutes to answer a set of questions. But one of the main things that I teach my students is like, you can repurpose almost anything you do. So if you spent 45 minutes today researching some new diet trend, well if that's trending, you can write a blog post on it and use that same research and you can do something on social media.
And so you didn't waste that time. You just made the best use.
Erica Julson: Yeah, and I do the reverse strategy. So, as you probably know, I used to have a membership site with like a bunch of nutrition notes, and that was like gold for quoting in the media. Cause like, I can imagine, Yeah, people would ask about like, XYZ supplement or condition.
I'm like, Oh, well sh we just published a note on that a month or two ago. So let me just go in here, pull this study. I already looked up and like send, send a quote. And I heard you say earlier, you talk in your program about how to send the information in a way that they wanna quote you,
Yes. That's also a learned skill, I think that, uh, is not always intuitive. Maybe we can talk about that even for a second.
Amy Gorin: Yeah. So when you talk to the media, you're talking in something that's called sound bites. And if you don't know what a sound bite is, it's literally a quick, succinct, memorable quote.
So basically when you answer a question for a reporter, instead of going, you know, including five paragraphs as the answer, you just hone it down to. You know, three to five sentences absolute max of just, if you are literally gonna have your quotes copy. Like if you pretend you're the writer and you think that your quotes are being copied and pasted, what would you copy and paste and put into that article?
Because in today's world, that is the actual reality. You know, 10 years ago, reporters had more time to put together stories, but now they're working so fast that if you can make their life easy and they can literally just copy your past, your quotes, and plop them into the article and add your name to it, they're gonna come back to you.
And that's the goal, is like once you make one of these reporter connections, you're gonna just wow them so much that they're gonna come back to you again and again.
Erica Julson: And I imagine that that's where maybe. Having a niche may help as well. So if they know you and their mind is like, Oh, this is the person I go to for this topic, that could be a benefit.
Amy Gorin: totally exactly the case. Um, you know, not to say like, I do know some very successful people who are, you know, what we call a general list. So they kind of just don't have a specific niche. Um, so it's not to say you can't do it, but if you have, if you're known for like, like people know they come to me for plant-based eating, um, you know, they might go to my colleague for, you know, diabetes or arthritis or, you know, if you get something like really specific and, and super niche.
Some people are afraid that that's still limiting, but it's actually the opposite because they become just the go-to for. .
Erica Julson: And then maybe they spread your name around too to their reporter friends. Totally.
Amy Gorin: Yeah. And that's where opportunities come up too. Like if there's, you know, someone who's looking for an author, you know, maybe an agent saying, or publisher is saying, Oh, we need someone to author this book on arthritis and, and nutrition and your niche.
Is that exactly exact same? Like, that's gonna make it a no brainer to come to you.
Erica Julson: So there's, like you mentioned already, it's the authority boost that you get from being able to say, Oh, I was featured in this so and so outlet and put all that on your website. That helps. But then from my angle with the blogging and seo, a lot of times they will link back to your website when they're mentioning you.
And if it's a do follow back link, that's the best possible scenario where, it passes on link juice from probably a pretty high domain authority website. Most news outlets have really high authority and that can help boost the authority of your own website, which helps you rank better. I'm not trying to like hijack the conversation, but like there's still value.
The biggest thing I probably, I probably see people saying is, Oh, I spent all this time in it. It was a no follow back link. And they're so mad. Or there was no link and it's just a mention.
But those, even though they're not quite as valuable as the do follow link scenario, still have value both in, some people will click and you'll get referral traffic, even if it's just a short spike that's valuable. And then Google is smart enough to see mentions, even if there's no link at all, they still see your name associated with certain types of content and on certain places on the internet and it's still an indirect benefit to your business.
So, lots and lots of reasons. . Yeah,
Amy Gorin: and I love that. I think it's always so interesting that there are, Cause there are benefits, like you said to, that are specific to blogging, that are specific to if you wanna work with brand partners. Um, but like you said, and I, I would actually argue from like a non blogging perspective, , you know, if you're being featured in like MSN and it's say you don't get a link at all versus like some Joe, my website and you do get a do follow link, like that MSN link is more valuable because you have, like you said, Google knows, but then also, you know, some reporter from this other amazing website is gonna see your name in, in this MSN an article and they're gonna say, Well I need to interview her cause she was in an msn.
And then you can put that logo in your seen section on your website and then a partners gonna say, See that? Or a private practice client who wants to pay you more because you're famous now. Um, you know, all of those happen. And that's literally from one interview that we're talking about.
Erica Julson: Yep. I'm a huge fan of dedicating time.
I do the same, at. Once a day, I'm like reading through the help Reporter out emails or going into some of the dietitian Facebook groups, like your own. Do you wanna plug that right now? What is your Facebook? Yeah, yeah. So
Amy Gorin: thanks. So I have a Facebook group, um, it's called Media Mastery with Amy.
So it's just Groups Media Mastery with Amy. And in there we have literally everyday reporters are coming in and saying, Oh, I need experts for this. You know, eat this. Not that interview, this Love Strong interview, this Food Network article. And um, you just mentioned something called Help a Reporter, which is great and we can talk about, um, but people, you kind of actually have that more of an inside track when you're in the Facebook group because you're part of a much smaller pull of people.
Yeah. You know, maybe it's like only 10 people who are submitting quotes and you have a much better chance of being.
Erica Julson: Exactly. And it's free. It's a free Facebook group. . It's free . Yeah. So, I love that you started that. I poke around in there. ,I haven't submitted myself for a ton of stuff cuz I'm not, like, I just started putting out some new content just in the last, just, just this year basically.
So I haven't had a lot to pull from or I wasn't really focused on that as being a new mom. But, I have submitted a few things here and there and gotten some, some links, so. Yay. . Yeah, it's
Amy Gorin: kind of like, I don't wanna say it's an easy way to get published, but it's an easy way to get published. Yeah.
Erica Julson: Yeah. Highly recommend. And that exists in a lot of different niches too. For people out there who are like food bloggers, there's like food blogger groups where people are publishing roundups and they're like, Hey, like put your best, you know, recipes. I don't know, gluten free stuffings. And then, you know, maybe 30 people leave a response.
Yes. They're putting 10 in their article. So like that's a pretty good, that's pretty good odds. And I don't know how many people get the helper reporter out emails, but probably a lot more than that.
Amy Gorin: thousands. And I actually, it's, I go into those blogging groups that you mentioned, like every day I just launched a new website and I'm just trying to get as many back links as possible.
So that's, yeah, that's, that's the goal. Do you wanna talk about HARO for a second? Sure. Yeah. Ok. Um, so help a reporter out. It's the short is HARO. People call it that. And, um, you just, it's a free service. So you sign up for it and you get Daily Digest and you're inbox of a gazillion media opportunities.
And so you just sift through them and you reply and you kind of just cross your fingers that you're included. Most times you're gonna submit something and you're never gonna hear about a reporter, but you still might get featured. Um, and that's really how that, and the Facebook group, like those are just.
the two best, like three ways to get started with this. Mm-hmm. .
Erica Julson: Yep. I usually pick up on these cuz I monitor my back links with some SEO tools. So that's one way to do it. Like I, let's just look every month on Sim Rush to see like what new back links I've gotten. Another way, really informal freeway.
You can just Google like your own name and then you can adjust in Google there's like advanced filters where you can just show results from like the last month or something. So you could, you know, theoretically look for your name or your brand name, every month and just see what new stuff has popped up that, what's a good way to capture not just back links, but also mentions?
Yeah. Yeah. I think
Amy Gorin: that's a great way. I actually, like, once you start getting more into the media, I know it sounds crazy, but I do that with the 24-hour filter every single day. Wow. Because sometimes it catches things that like fall through the cracks when you open up the month long filter mm-hmm.
And so that way you don't miss.
Erica Julson: Nice. Yeah. And this was not even on my radar, but as you were sharing your process, then after this step, your next step was Oh, how to share and get attention. I'm like, Oh yeah. Duh. That's such an obvious thing to do. Like if someone mentions you, you know, do the a solid and share the link.
I saw something on Instagram that you shared like some celebrity or something shared, an article that you were featured in that
Amy Gorin: Yeah, Maria, Maria Shiver put me in a tweet and I just was like, oh.
You never know who's gonna, you never know who is going to through you in media. Um, but from the other side of it, it's always like when you're included in an article, like say a reporter quotes you and love strong, what you can really do is like, do them a solid.
Quote, like tag them in a post and share that, because that's something that these days like their editors care about. They're kind of like, Well, who are you interviewing? Do they have a social reach? Are they going to share in social? And if the answer is yes to those things, it might seem like that shouldn't matter, but it truly does.
Um, I, I've been on the other side of it for freelance writing to my editors are kinda like, Well make sure you choose people with like this many followers as experts in the article. Um, so that's important. But then also just to share on your own platforms, to show people what you're doing. Because if you don't share it, they don't know you're doing it.
Erica Julson: And sometimes people feel like, Maybe, um, I don't wanna feel like I'm bragging or whatever, how do you address those concerns? Yeah, I,
Amy Gorin: um, you know, I recently came up against that when I did, um, cause I did some TV segments for NBC a couple months ago, and it had been like quite a while since I'd done TV and I in the brand as like part of the official partnership, they were like, you know, we don't wanna use our social media posts for, for sharing this TV segment.
And I was kind of like, I had that moment of should I share? And then the next moment I thought, I am absolutely still going to share this because if I don't share it, nobody knows I did it. And so you have to also share widely, like share on your social platforms and stories, you know, and static posts, but then also share it to your e-newsletter list.
And then I also have a section on my website where I feature all of my recent media because you never know. Chances are one person is going to choose one of those ways to find out what you're doing, but they're not gonna choose all three of
Erica Julson: them.
So I know we've been talking for a little bit now, so I don't wanna leave out this part. Can we talk numbers and income and like maybe some real life examples of how you can leverage these opportunities into real money in business? Yeah, for sure.
Amy Gorin: So I will just be really transparent right now and in the last 12 months I've earned over $200,000 from working with brands and I have five other revenue streams on, you know, in addition to that.
So the bottom line is you can make some serious income and I'd say like if I were to share a pie chart of what I spend my time on the brand partnerships is actually one of the smallest pieces of time. It's just that you do all these other things, You do media, you do freelance writing, you do all these other things to get your name out so that you can land these, these brand partnerships.
Erica Julson: and that's really cool. I love that you're tying in the freelance piece as, part of this like flywheel approach almost, because it's like double dipping in a sense because you're getting paid for that work, but it is also working almost as, you know, like media promotion for yourself as well. It
Amy Gorin: is, yeah.
It's like you're exactly . If you can say like, you can, if you write for food network, you can put them in your, in section on your, on your website.
Erica Julson: So, first of all, that's just like an amazing, incredible amount of money to be from these opportunities. I honestly, I knew that you could make money doing this type of thing, but I didn't know you could make that much money and have that not even be like all you're doing, you know, there's so many other things you're doing in your business as well.
So, can you give us an example, like out of that, let's say 200,000 now you've earned in the last 12 months, like what have been the most lucrative types of opportunities?
Amy Gorin: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so what you, and there's a couple different answers to this question. Um, so when you're looking, when you're kind of investigating the world or brand partnerships, and this is something that if you can, like when I work with my students and the master, the media coaching program, like this is something that we start on like day one of just changing mindsets about, because it makes a huge difference, is you want to talk to brands about long-lasting relationships, not smaller, one off partnerships.
Not to say that you don't wanna entertain those, but like, if I look at what the work that I'm doing, I have clients that have been repeat contract renewals for six or seven years and like those are really the dream situations when you're working with brands is these partnerships will come to you and every year.
You know, kind of promise you for this work, like anywhere from 10 to $60,000 or more, you know, for that amount of work and that kinda work can entail like, honestly so many different things. Sometimes you're hosting media events, um, you're working at
Erica Julson: trade. What does, what does hosting a media event mean?
Amy Gorin: Yeah, that's a great question. So, before the pandemic, a lot of these were in person and some of them were kinda starting to come back. But in today's world, a lot of them are virtual. And so you could, you know, say that the brand you're working with has a new product and they wanna promote it. So you could get together, you know, and the brand would probably do this, and sometimes this is a service I offer because I have media contacts, is getting together a group of this, these media, you know, probably virtually.
So they're editors and reporters at different media outlets and you're introducing the product to them. And maybe it's a straight, you know, discussion about the product. Maybe you're doing a cooking demo or something, you know, fun, maybe you're doing a wine tasting, You know, there's usually an activity involved and.
As an expert with influence, like your job is to communicate about the product and the highlights of it. Um, sometimes these events are targeted towards media dietitians. Um, sometimes they're targeted towards influencers and sometimes they mix all three of the traditional media, the influencers and the media dietitians.
That world has always fascinated me. Like I've seen people posting online, I got paid to tour a cranberry farm today or something, . It seems so cool. But so foreign to me. I've never done anything like that. But that helps the way that you broke it down and like what they're trying to get out of it and why they're inviting these people.
And it's really
Amy Gorin: just, it's like one of those things you kind of look back and you're like, Okay, the day's over. Like I had so much fun. Um, so there was like one day where a brand hired me and it was that soul cycle and we did two back to back. With different groups of editors. And I was there with like a celebrity chef and I was there talking about the food, and the chef was like demoing some recipes and it was just honestly like fun.
Yeah. And you get paid
Erica Julson: for. That actually reminds me when I first became an RD and I didn't know what I was doing yet, I was still doing some, like one off work with one of my, preceptors that I had worked with. She would hire me like one off to help her with things. So she did some media work and was doing food videos for a brand, and then I was like the food stylist kind of person behind the scenes.
And it was the same thing. Like we were there for like probably over 12 hours. It was a long day, but I felt like I got compensated fairly for that time. And it was just fun. Like, I was like, Oh, wow. That whole day just flew by and actually I think it was multiple two days in a row. Um, but it was, it was super enjoyable.
And sometimes people do that work as their main thing that they do. Yeah,
Amy Gorin: it is. And what you, to your point of what you just said, like I just finished a two day video shoot where we spent like 10 hours, two days in a row and the outcome is like four short videos and it was. You know, you're kind of like, wow, that's a lot of time to commit to something for like that outcome.
Um, but it's really fun. And like you said, you, you get compensated very fairly for
Erica Julson: it. That was actually probably my first introduction to that whole world. That dietitian got a lot of interesting media opportunities actually. Um, not a hundred percent sure exactly how all that happened.
I think she was just really well connected. Just had good connections in the media world. So like one thing would lead to another, lead to another. I don't know that she was actively like pitching herself that much, but I felt almost like once you're in and like a known entity , that your name kind of maybe gets circulated around.
Um, it is, yeah. You kind
Amy Gorin: of, it's like the same thing with freelance writing and even being quoted in the media like you spend at the beginning, you spend a significant amount of time pitching yourself and then as you start getting those connections, it kind of, not to say you never need to pitch yourself again, but it kind of just like is word of mouth.
Erica Julson: Mm-hmm. . Interesting. Interesting. And then I guess just one random question, I'm kind of a tangent that I see come up sometimes and I don't really have a great answer cause it's not my area of expertise, but I've always interested in it. When is it appropriate to charge an ongoing name and likeness fee?
And when does that apply to the work
Amy Gorin: that you're doing? That's a great question and I think, let's backtrack for one second and explain what name and likeness is. Um, so basically it's the usage of your name, your biography, and or your image. And a lot of. You know, you might have a conversation with a brand like, okay, we're gonna do a blog post and a recipe and you know, some other deliverable social media post.
And then you get the contract and there's this whole name and lightness clause and you're kind of thrown because that's not something that you talked about. Um, so sometimes, and this is where it gets super confusing, of course, um, and we do go this through this, uh, in the program I run. Um, but it's kind of like it's case by case.
So like sometimes, you know, say you're posting something for a brand on social media, it's implied within the rate that you give them usually that they're gonna be able to share that for. And this is where, you know, it's for a limited amount of time. So you might in include in your contract like that, the brand can share that post with your name for like 30 to 60 days after the post goes live.
But you run into problems where maybe it's added to your contract. The, the words that should make you kind of just be like, I need to pay attention to this are and perpetuity. And that means forever and ever and ever with no end date. And you never, for anything, for even like this, for anything else, you never wanna agree to this.
Um, because I actually was going to attend, um, a trip to attend like a food, a food company's facilities, and they gave me a contract. And in the contract it was like basically saying they could use my name and lightness forever. And so I ended up not going on the trip because, you know, we couldn't, we could not see eye to eye on that.
And sometimes that happens, like you'll be offered some very lucrative work and you have to make the decision, is this in my best interest to actually sign this contract? And you know, the first many times I did this, I worked with a lawyer to kind of help create some language that after a while of doing this you kind of get familiar with and you can kinda just like use the same language over and over.
Um, But like say there's that same contract that the example that we use with the social media and in there there's a clause that says, you know, the brand can use, can quote your social media post on their website and media interviews and their newsletter, you know, for the next six months and they're not gonna compensate you for that.
But that's use of name and likeness. That's something you want to either say, let's talk about what this would cost and see if we can increase the budget or you'd wanna remove that from the contract. So that's kind of where you get into this. Like you wanna just make sure that you're protecting your name because the reality is like say that brand's still using your name six months from now, you're not getting compensated for that.
But then a competitor comes to you and says, I wanna work with you. Oh, but wait, this other company's still using your name so like we can't work with you right now and then you're actually losing money.
Erica Julson: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for elaborating on why you would not want that to happen. , maybe it's not clear for people, who aren't doing this type of.
Amy Gorin: yeah. And I mean, it's sometimes like when you first start doing this work and you kinda say like, Oh wow, you wanna pay me a thousand dollars for this? But in reality, like that endorsement is maybe worth 10,000 and that's where you kind of, it's just, it's helpful to understand all the nuances of this a little bit more.
Erica Julson: Do you have any resources on figuring out what you should be charging for this type of work?
Amy Gorin: That's a great question. And honestly, like, what I tell people to do is just, um, so in the free Facebook group that I run that I, um, mentioned earlier, the, uh, medium mastery with Amy, um, I just encourage people to post their questions in there and like, you know, I always do my best effort to answer everything that comes in.
Um, cause I don't think that this should be a secret. You know what to charge. I don't think that any. Should be like hidden information. Um, so that's really my goal in having that, that free Facebook group is just to kind of make information as available as
Erica Julson: possible. Yeah, Yeah. I used Abby Sharp to, I don't know if she's updated it in the last few years, but at one point I think she did some sort of like survey of media dietitians, about what people were charging.
And I believe if you, cuz you know, there's like laws about price fixing and stuff like that. So Yes. But I believe if you do it in sort of like an anonymized survey type way and you're just publishing data for people, like, that's totally fine. So, she did the legwork on that and came up with this really cool, pricing sheet that was really eyeopening for me.
I bought it and was looking at it and I was like, wow. Like, for example, the name and likeness as a dietitian, Like she even breaks it down. You know, if you're not a d a dietitian, maybe these are the type of rates you could get. But that credential really like bumped it up in terms of the value, like you were saying earlier.
Amy Gorin: yeah, I mean, and I, I think that is, um, great that she put together that, um, and like you said, like you can't, you know, price fix. Um, so when I answer questions, I usually give a range or I say like, Oh, this, this price that you would charge for this is comparable to this other thing that, you know, the price of.
And then it's kind of just like vague but helpful, you know?
Erica Julson: okay. Well I don't wanna take up too much of your time, so I'm just gonna ask my favorite last questions. Yeah, yeah, go for it. When I was excited to ask you was what's your coolest, most favorite media opportunity that you've gotten as an rd
Amy Gorin: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so my favorite. Opportunity ever was. Um, this is a few years ago now. I worked with Panda Express and I actually like helped them recreate their menu . And we came up with all of these initiatives to like reduce sugar, red, you know, added sugar to reduce sodium.
Um, . And the really cool thing was, so this is one of those situations where themes don't always work out the way that you think they're going to, but then that can actually be better. So the first year I worked with them for two years in a row. The first year they came to me and I was up for a spokesperson opportunity that I did not get, but I just, in talking to them, pitched them these ideas, um, and then they came back to me and they said, Okay, we're gonna hire you as a consultant to actually help recreate these menus.
And then the next year they hired me as a spokesperson to communicate about the menu, you know, revamp. And that was just so cool because I got to do media work and, you know, we did some blog and social media too. And it was about something that I really felt like I had a hand in, in helping make the world a better
Erica Julson: place.
A concrete example I think always helps, when people are trying to come up with like, what this really looks like in terms of what you would typically be doing, working with brands. So I guess to close this off, is there one really solid piece of advice, like maybe something you wish you knew or something like that for somebody trying to get started?
What do they need to be doing? What's square one ? Yeah.
Amy Gorin: I would say really just do like, say yes to every media opportunity that comes your way. And that might just sound. You might think, well, that's obvious, but when you're busy, when you have clients and you're just like, Oh, I don't wanna add another thing to your, to my week.
But like taking that little bit of time to answer a media query, to do a podcast interview, it's gonna go such a long way in helping to increase your media exposure and the potential for all these other avenue streams. So, and one media interview is going to lead to many, many more. Great.
Erica Julson: Well, where should people go if they want to follow along with you and learn more about working with the media?
Amy Gorin: Yeah, absolutely. So we are on Instagram at Master the Media and then Facebook, there's a Facebook group and a Facebook URL that have the same, um, url, so it's Medium Mastery with Amy. And then if you are interested in joining us for. Some six months of, of media coaching. Um, so the master of the media coaching program that I run, it's 12 modules of everything from nicheing to working with media to getting those high paying brand partnerships.
And that is all lifetime access to the education material is you get 65 continuing education credits and then what I consider to be the gold of the program is the weekly coaching that we do for six months. And that's really what has led, um, past students to get featured in the media in like two weeks.
Like to get high pain brain partnerships in two or three months and just really, um, they just run wild and it's really fun.
So it's masterthemedia.co/course.
Erica Julson: And then obviously you have your whole other arm of stuff that's not media coaching with like plant based with Amy.
I think it's always nice to see, yes, I have this coaching program, but then like, here's me doing it in real life too, if you wanna see an example. Yeah, so
Amy Gorin: My website is, plant-based with amy.com and then my social media handles, um, they're either plant-based with Amy or Amy d Gorin.
Um, so that's on Instagram for instance. And my niche is inclusive, plant-based eating. So just really helping everyone in anyone eat more plants. There's fun recipes and nutrition.
Erica Julson: Great. Well, thank you for lending your wisdom. I feel like we could have talked for a whole nother hour. I think
Amy Gorin: so. Yeah.
I can talk about this all
Erica Julson: day long. Yeah. So many rabbit holes in so many different angles to go out of. Um, yeah. Thank you. And I know I, I feel like I like chat with you online all the time in various avenues, so, it was really great to kind of informally meet you via Zoom, um, and it was so great. Yeah.
All your great advice. So hopefully, anyone listening to this podcast who's interested in the world of media, Amy is an excellent, excellent resource. So definitely give her a follow .
Amy Gorin: Yeah. And if you have questions like don't be afraid to d me.
Erica Julson: Great. Well thank you again and, hopefully we can chat again in the future on this up on this podcast.
Um, I would love that. Yeah, . All right, well thank you. Thanks so much. Bye.